What's With The Streetcars? (Columbus, Cincinnati: university, utilities, upkeep)

[j.conger]

Whoa,
These boards are really active. Thanks for all the replies. @Wilson: I am not basing my living choices off of trains, bars, etc. I was just using it as a tool to assess how much the city is committed to improvement.

However, I do care a lot about the arts and culture (theatre, music, writing). But not enough where I have to be somewhere "hip" or "trendy", just enough where it is okay to be a supporter of such things, or where the city actually encourages the arts. Walkable neighborhoods tend to be my thing, rather than flat sprawl. Mostly, my questions come not out of trying to move to the next Portland, but out of wanting to move to a city that cares more about economic revitalization for the future than about politics. Unfortunately this is not most cities. Thank you all for your replies.

[motorman]

^ Kudos, Wilson513, for saying it like it is, but why are we all getting so concerned about some youngster from god-knows-where who might be perplexed by even one of Queen City Metro's new fare boxes? I think his credentials for living here are as important as our credentials for encouraging him to come here--and so far I'm not all that impressed...

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

...and the municipal government of Cincinnati itself is inept and marked by infighting and cronyism...

Sarah, I believe that applies, as well, to many (if not most) U.S. cities...

[progmac]

Originally Posted by j.conger

Whoa,
These boards are really active. Thanks for all the replies. @Wilson: I am not basing my living choices off of trains, bars, etc. I was just using it as a tool to assess how much the city is committed to improvement.

However, I do care a lot about the arts and culture (theatre, music, writing).

Cincinnati has a VERY robust and rich cultural scene and many powerful, old-money type cultural institutions. Certainly few cities of the west can touch us in that regard.

Really innovative art stuff is happening throughout the city, loosely centered around UC and occurring in typical artsy places like northside as well as low-rent, "lousy" neighborhoods like Brighton / Mohawk.

Walkability is something that is improving. Leaders "get it" on one hand but the big money here still pushes horrible "cost effective" development except for downtown. If walkability is a key for you, base your neighborhood choice off of that and you should be pleasantly surprised. I take the bus to work and have all the staples within walking distance. Even so, there aren't many pedestrians around and you'll still need to drive to visit your friends, family, and generally when you go to the grocery.

Compared with New York, Boston, even Denver, etc, Cincinnati is E-M-P-T-Y. It could literally support triple its current population. Sometimes it feels like you have the whole city to yourself. There are pockets of vibrancy, but you do have to seek them out and turn over a few rocks to figure out what is really going on. Columbus and Cleveland are quite similar in this regard.

Also, it is hilly here, the flat sprawl is north of the city - and there is plenty of it.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by motorman

^ Kudos, Wilson513, for saying it like it is, but why are we all getting so concerned about some youngster from god-knows-where who might be perplexed by even one of Queen City Metro's new fare boxes? I think his credentials for living here are as important as our credentials for encouraging him to come here--and so far I'm not all that impressed...

I don't understand your post. However, I am noticing a lot of hating on the new fareboxes. We all rode free the other day because it was broken. I've heard that soon you'll be able to put in a $20 and get back your change on a card that you can swipe until it is empty. That will be a welcome change from the 7-quarter method or visiting the one tiny place downtown that sells tokens.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

Sarah, I believe that applies, as well, to many (if not most) U.S. cities...

It's another area I have some professional experience with. You're possibly correct, but if I had my entire adult life ahead of me--and thus was interested in where the city would be in 20 or 30 years--and no particular limits on where to settle, I'd look for one of the places that DOES have an honest, efficient, enlightened local government. They exist. Cincinnati's is not one of them.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

I think it is hard to find a better place to live, work and play, raise a family or retire than here in Cincinnati. People who prioritize their wish list with things like trains, professional sports, hip bar scene, etc. are people who want to see themselves in a different way. They want to be trendy, cutting edge and hip...

Cincinnati is affordable, easy to get around, and most importantly, highly egalitarian. Meaning that if you are an entry level dude like the poster in question, he can actually participate in just about everything the city has to offer without having a surname that people recognize or a M.D. at the end of his name...

Totally with you on this one, Wilson513! I'd tell any young, entry-level person inquiring about Cincinnati just about what you did, except when I'm in one of my "moods" (which I'm in right now...). For any kid whose first concern is what is this city gonna do for him, I'm gonna counter with what is he gonna do for this city? Tough love/tough requirements... "Hey kid--don't call us/we'll call you." Don't like that approach? Then try this one... "Just leave your application on the desk, but be aware that we don't anticipate any openings for some time, or at least until our screening committee can thoroughly evaluate your qualifications." Or... "So, just what are 'ya trying to tell us, kid--that 'ya can't act, 'ya can't sing, 'ya can't dance?? Next!" Yeah, Wilson513, we're gonna head off trouble at the pass by becoming very selective to whom we allow into our Midwestern Paradise, our Eden, our Cincinnati.

[j.conger]

@Sarah Perry and Progmac.
Thanks! Those posts are very helpful.


@Moto
That's fine. I'm sorry you feel that way. Sorry I don't have my Cincinnati green card. I'm no different that most recent college grads; I'm no more special than any. Like most, I want to have a city where I can be active and have a community feel to it. The whole point of finding a city that fits you is reciprocity. People tend to defend and upkeep what they love vigorously. Like most young working people, I'll pay taxes, support community functions, try to be a good citizen, etc. Most cities are trying to attract young talent (See N.C. triangle area). But isolationism will get you nowhere except looking at an exodus of capital, a lack of an educated workforce and more empty lots.

Overall, Cincinnati seems like a nice town. I'll get off your boards now.

Cheers,
John

[motorman]

Originally Posted by j.conger

@Moto
That's fine. I'm sorry you feel that way. Sorry I don't have my Cincinnati green card...

...I'll get off your boards now.

Cheers,
John

Yo, John--LOL! Thanks for the funniest line I read in a long time! ("Cincinnati green card...") All kidding aside, everyone of us welcomes you to the Queen City. And your sincerity of comment trumps any of my attempts at humor at your expense. Oh, now you can now tear up that green card; your permanent resident-visa has been approved...

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

Given the fact that the streetcar's been discussed on these boards far past the point of absurdity, my first reaction to your post was to not take it seriously.

But to address your question, whether or not it should be taken at face value: I'm a Cincinnati area native who lived away for many years and returned 11 years ago as a middle-aged woman. It's my home, and I have reasons for liking the place. It has a lively arts community and beautiful natural terrain, two things that are important to me, for a relatively low cost of living.

That said, it's just about the last largish size city on the face of the earth that I'd recommend for someone in your position. The community is conservative in just about every respect you can think of and the municipal government of Cincinnati itself is inept and marked by infighting and cronyism. Despite these problems and against all odds, there is indeed some redevelopment occurring. But I think if you're free to choose anyplace you want to settle, you can probably do much better than Cincinnati.

^ Sooooo Cincinnati.

Do we want the city to continue to diversify, welcoming in people of all backgrounds? Or do we just want carbon copies of what we've always been and people who do things the way they've always been done around here, only opening our doors to people who think like us and who come from similar cultural backgrounds? I want to welcome someone who may have different ideas and aspirations, someone who sees what thrives elsewhere and wants it here, and someone who can help the city take the next step. Someone who doesn't quote-unquote care where you went to high school. So, j.conger, welcome!

And Wilson513: How, exactly, are people trying to make Cincinnati hip with professional sports? The Reds have been here since 1869, the Bengals since the 1960s. It seems to me that those two institutions have been here for decades upon decades, and they're part of the established urban fabric of Cincinnati. Whether or not you garner enjoyment out of one or both is irrelevant - they're things that cities of Cincinnati's metropolitan size can expect to have. Just like cities of Cincinnati's size are likely to have universities, symphonies, zoos, etc. The pro sports teams are hardly new entities trying to shoehorn into the local scene. If someone was trying to attract an NHL team here, you may have a point. But the Reds pre-date your great grandparents, they're hardly some newfangled gimmick thought up to make the city more hip to outsiders. And no, I'm not interested in a stadium debate here. (Yes, the stadium deal sucks. But that bed was made a long time ago.)