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worldlyman, those videos are just awful! You've managed to make Houston look worse that it actually is! What's the point of driving around around the block at night? Did it occur to you that you were able to drive 35-40mph without stopping because there was no one on the street? Wow, just wow. You've basically proven that the standards of what is considered vibrant and urban in Houston are so low that it's not even funny anymore, just sad.
Do yourself and Houston a favor and let this thread fade away so no one will see it, because if they do, it's all over.
What's awful to you is actually very cool to those of us who do DO NOT like prefabricated streetscapes that really look all too similar (La Jolla, Gas Lamp, Pacific/Garnet, yada yada)
Oh that's right, the Anal Urbanist types like everything to be in one or two areas...crowded blocks as possible for maximum, quick packaged convenience. And I though the urbanists like a little walking around? No sense of adventure? I mean Houston's blocks do have a LOT of cool hangouts.
In other words, some of us actually prefer variety of settings...and MUCH MORE variety. Houston kicks San Diego when it comes to variety of places to go. Period. There is a greater sense of adventure in Houston geographically when it comes to partying compared to San Diego. No wonder, I'd noticed out there, many restless people in S.D. had many times blurted "wanna go party in L.A...go do stuff in L.A."
And my videos state the obvious...we have a LOT more action in different places and ALL AROUND rather than front-loading in touristy concentrations that GET BORING after awhile. I lived in J Street in the Gas Lamp for awhile...and that got boring pretty quickly. Living in San Diego, I actually had to drive to LA for some different thrills. I mean, I had to get outta San Diego many times on the weekend. Living in Houston, I have enough to keep me satisfied.
Where DO YOU find those HUGE colorful patio decks like those along Richmond Avenue if that's one is after? Tell me where in San Diego do you find a COLLECTION of unbelievably HUGE and open sky decks such as Sam's Boat, Concert Pub, Mazaj, Deck Haus, Horn and etc when that's what we feel like? There are times we don't care about Anal Urban concepts such as "connectivity."
Indeed, there are times we don't give a flip about walking density...like typical Anal Urbanists who don't know how to enjoy themselves if the sun shined on them, if the sidewalks didn't appear a certain way or if the storefronts didn't match...you Anal Urbanists crack me up.
But at the same time, there is a true urban edginess that is MORE THRILLING, due to architecture AND DIVERSITY of PEOPLE, when walking around downtown Houston on a Thursday or Friday night, from Bayou Place to No-Tsu-Oh to La Carafe to Flying Saucer to the Houston Pavilions, that Gas Lamp will never give me. Gas Lamp is just Disneyfied "urbanity"...overpriced mediocre touristy food with safe and sweet cute crowdy-owdy streets for the pasty tourists to remember forever when they go back to Des Moines or Muncie, IN.
San Diego apart from its little concentrations...where else is the vibrancy? We KNOW Houston is not built like SF or Chicago. But for what it is, at least we DO HAVE decent pedestrian action in MANY parts...yet we enjoy open areas as well. Not many cities or metros can say that. Then again, Anal Urbanists have a tough time digesting that.
Like I said, you want a Disney-vibe "urban" style where the street textures are kinda all too similar...go to San Diego.
You want sheer variety/diversity, more adventurous spacing (still loaded with tons of cafes/bars), less predictability and monotony, MORE AREAS to go hang out...Houston kicks it all over San Diego, "America's Finest City."
Last edited by worldlyman; 07-08-2012 at 06:41 PM..
Worldlyman those pictures are horrible, you being the booster that you are I'm sure you nitpicked these pictures to the upmost degree to show people and still shows a deserted downtown, why not show us a regular driving video of Houston during the busy business hours?
Horrible pictures? They look typically urban to me. "Deserted." Typical hater talk now.
Houston has impressive architecture downtown, compared to downtown San Diego and these are "horrible pictures" merely because it's Houston. No one will truly ever say San Diego has an impressive skyline. But Houston's skyline, that's a different story.
Who needs a "driving video" when I can walk and take pictures of lots of people on the sidewalks?
Remember Houston has a few other business districts and entertainment areas OUTSIDE of downtown. In that context, downtown Houston is just another busy area. What format are you expecting? Cities like Chicago, SF and Boston which all would fit in Houston's city limits?
Last edited by worldlyman; 07-08-2012 at 05:27 PM..
To say they have 0 character might be a bit of an exaggeration, but the foot traffic is pretty weak for a downtown area on a workday morning.
I would imagine pedestrian activity in the average SD neighborhood would be much higher than the typical Houston neighborhood.
If you know Houston, we have busy business areas in the Uptown/Galleria, the Texas Medical Center, Greenway Plaza, the Energy Corridor/Memorial City, Greenspoint...
so of course, we do not have a front-loaded downtown. Thus Downtown Houston is but ONE of several busy areas.
And for what it is, downtown Houston is FAR from the "deserted" tumbleweed ghost town it is apparently made out to be.
Now, does San Diego or such comparable cities have other sizable business districts apart from downtown to the extent of Houston? I thought so.
And San Diego mass pedestrian activity is generally tourist-based around Gas Lamp. The likes of Uptown/Hillcrest, University and such really isn't that higher...when you take into account that downtown Houston is quite huge compared to San Diego 'hoods...and Houston has a tunnel system to offset climate.
And downtown Houston has a sophisticated cultural district with decent nocturnal foot traffic with the best theater, opera, symphony, movies. San Diego? What's culture?
Horrible pictures? They look typically urban to me. "Deserted." Typical hater talk now.
Houston has impressive architecture downtown, compared to downtown San Diego and these are "horrible pictures" merely because it's Houston. No one will truly ever say San Diego has an impressive skyline. But Houston's skyline, that's a different story.
Who needs a "driving video" when I can walk and take pictures of lots of people on the sidewalks?
Remember Houston has a few other business districts and entertainment areas OUTSIDE of downtown. In that context, downtown Houston is just another busy area. What format are you expecting? Cities like Chicago, SF and Boston which all would fit in Houston's city limits?
What you're forgetting to add is that these so called business districts are just as or even more deserted then downtown Houston, what you call business districts I call parking heaven office parks, generic , lifeless and bland is how I would describe them, and what does architecture have to do with Houston beibg lifeless and far from urban?
What you're forgetting to add is that these so called business districts are just as or even more deserted then downtown Houston, what you call business districts I call parking heaven office parks, generic , lifeless and bland is how I would describe them, and what does architecture have to do with Houston beibg lifeless and far from urban?
I'm not so sure I'd call Greenway, Uptown/Galleria and the Texas Med Center as "lifeless" or "bland." Lots of the adjacent commercial centers have BUSY activity with UNIQUE colorful mom and pops, if hip ones. People do eat alfresco and walk around them while trying to act pretty, looking to eat or shop or get their dry cleaning. Yet these people have to get back to work in time.
The other centers are places which exist for business. So what? So what if they are not downtown? I'm just explaining the basic dynamic as to why downtown Houston is not as crowded as the downtowns of lesser endowed cities that are centralized.
So what is "urban" to you? Lots of folks milling about from cute cafe to cute boutique on wide sidewalks, where the blocks are hunched up as close as possible, with the cute storefronts? Where lots of that foot traffic is substantially tourists? Look at University Heights. The Anal Urbanists really brag about that format? I mean it's not all too different from Garnet or the streets in Uptown/Hillcrest. Those cute, nicely uniform BUT predictable and monotonous street textures.
I lived in J Street for a few months. There was nothing that really felt "urban" about that. I lived in Chicago so I know what "urban" is.
The Gas Lamp is merely Houston's Midtown that's just a lot more crowded, in my view. But at least Houston feels heck of a lot more edgy and raw.
Where is your Richmond Avenue with the WIDE HUGE decks? Where is your oddball secluded Fairview St? I have never seen anything like Houston's burgeoning hip White Oak in San Diego. The Montrose in Houston is REPLETE with cafe/bar bungalows and mini-Victorians to at least give it some unique character unlike LA, Dallas, Atlanta, Tempe, etc.
Houston has VARIETY of streetscapes with their own unique spacing and look beyond the typical strip centers.
Nothing about San Diego feels even remotely urbane.
I would take the downtown Houston's Theater District, the sophisticated architectural surroundings...(and yes there is pedestrian nightlife there) over a bunch of San Diego's plastic little cookie cutter walking areas any day.
People DO walk in Houston. But it's the unpretentious areas. The Anal Urbanists don't really realize that fact.
People walk the sidewalks of Gessner, Hillcroft/Bellaire, Ranchester (in New Chinatown), many sections of Westheimer...and Westchase.
They do this walking for their livelihood. Houston represents a new form of urbanity. We know that we are not Philly, SF or Chicago in format. But this is a HUGE city that's getting more and more crowded...and lots of people do have to walk for their survival, if they want to get their halal or pupusas, catch the METRO, stroll the babies and what not. "Lifeless" my a--.
My cousin from Chicagoland came for a visit several months ago. She was amazed at Houston's New Chinatown with its extravagant neon and commercial plentitude with LATE cafe/bar hours, people walking all around...she wished Chicago's suburbs were like that.
The other centers are places which exist for business. So what? So what if they are not downtown? I'm just explaining the basic dynamic as to why downtown Houston is not as crowded as the downtowns of lesser endowed cities that are centralized.
So Houston's excuse for having a dull/lifeless downtown is because there are many dull/lifeless office parks all over the metro further sucking the life of the dull/lifeless city center. Gotcha!
Quote:
Originally Posted by worldlyman
So what is "urban" to you? Lots of folks milling about from cute cafe to cute boutique on wide sidewalks, where the blocks are hunched up as close as possible, with the cute storefronts? Where lots of that foot traffic is substantially tourists? Look at University Heights. The Anal Urbanists really brag about that format? I mean it's not all too different from Garnet or the streets in Uptown/Hillcrest. Those cute, nicely uniform BUT predictable and monotonous street textures.
Urban can mean a lot of things to different people. You described one of them. Funny thing is Uptown/Hillcrest and Garnett are more lively than anything Houston offers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by worldlyman
The Gas Lamp is merely Houston's Midtown that's just a lot more crowded, in my view. But at least Houston feels heck of a lot more edgy and raw.
You dismiss the Gaslamp as touristy but you still compare Midtown to it. Hilarious! And by saying edgy and raw you mean more ghetto? Yeah, H-Town is a helluva lot more ghetto. BTW I don't think you know what you're talking about when you call hoods such as Gaslamp, La Jolla, PB pre-fabricated. Those areas are as organic and original as they come from an "urban" of view. Strip-Mall haven Galleria? Pre-fabricated. Texas Medical Center? A huge collection of hospitals? Pre-Fabricated. Theater district? Pre-Fabricated! Most of Houston's attempts to re-vitalize and reinvigorate mostly suburban main streets? Pre-fabricated!
Quote:
Originally Posted by worldlyman
Where is your Richmond Avenue with the WIDE HUGE decks? Where is your oddball secluded Fairview St? I have never seen anything like Houston's burgeoning hip White Oak in San Diego. The Montrose in Houston is REPLETE with cafe/bar bungalows and mini-Victorians to at least give it some unique character unlike LA, Dallas, Atlanta, Tempe, etc.
Lol. And you call other people here Anal Urbanists? Sorry to say that you are the Anal Urbanist that lives in a city known for being the very antithesis of an urban city. Sucks to be you.
So Houston's excuse for having a dull/lifeless downtown is because there are many dull/lifeless office parks all over the metro further sucking the life of the dull/lifeless city center. Gotcha!
Urban can mean a lot of things to different people. You described one of them. Funny thing is Uptown/Hillcrest and Garnett are more lively than anything Houston offers.
You dismiss the Gaslamp as touristy but you still compare Midtown to it. Hilarious! And by saying edgy and raw you mean more ghetto? Yeah, H-Town is a helluva lot more ghetto. BTW I don't think you know what you're talking about when you call hoods such as Gaslamp, La Jolla, PB pre-fabricated. Those areas are as organic and original as they come from an "urban" of view. Strip-Mall haven Galleria? Pre-fabricated. Texas Medical Center? A huge collection of hospitals? Pre-Fabricated. Theater district? Pre-Fabricated! Most of Houston's attempts to re-vitalize and reinvigorate mostly suburban main streets? Pre-fabricated!
Lol. And you call other people here Anal Urbanists? Sorry to say that you are the Anal Urbanist that lives in a city known for being the very antithesis of an urban city. Sucks to be you.
This is exactly right, this guys is so delusional it's almost pathetic, wordlyman sees everything in Houston with rose colored glasses, if there's no sidewalk its more varying in looks lol hello its called not being developed, if its lifeless downtown its because people are using the tunnels which he photographed and looked just as dead as the downtown streets, if you see a lot of people in the streets of San Diego its touristy so in other words the bland, lifeless streets of Houston are that way because no tourists go there is basically what he's saying, in order for wordlyman to think a place not to be generic which is what most of Houston is anyways it has to be partially undeveloped with grass for you to walk on instead of a paved sidewalk
I think it's terrible that the SD boosters have resorted to bashing Houston, especially by looking at downtown alone. Houston has just as much to offer as SD does. And don't act as if SD is the density SF's compared to Houston. Houston, according to C-D, has an average density level, not that low.
Those pics of Downtown Houston don't look crowded, but saying "There is no foot traffic" is pretty over-done.
I haven't been to any city in California except for LA a few time (I was also born there), so I won't judge SD from personal expierince, but from stats, It looks like SD is barely keeping up with cities in its own tier, much less Houston.
This site is full of nutjobs IMO. Its hard to argue against the cities in California, especially those in coastal California. Take them all from a birdseye to understand them. I don't doubt that Houston has a lot going for it but it pales in comparison to the Californian cities.
San Diego is America's finest city. Best weather in the country. Scenery is eye popping. Crime rate is the lowest for all big cities in the US. Downtown is hopping. Gaslamp district is one of the finest and largest nightlife districts around. Conventions are plentiful as are entertainment options from seaworld, to legoland, to the world famous zoo's. Outdoor activities have no limits. Location is perfect for a trek into the bigger city LA or into the resort destinations of Baja. San Diego also has a world famous UCSD, one of the best public colleges in the nation apart of the country's best public school system. Some of the finest golf courses and neighborhoods in the world.
Its really laughable when people compare cities that don't measure up to San Diego despite being much larger. San Diego is just a more desirable city than Houston or Dallas or Atlanta or Miami or Phily or Detroit or Denver or Charlotte. Its more desirable because its safe, clean, family friendly, has a great location, great weather, perfect scenery, great schools, and great neighborhoods. Sure Houston may have some of these things but it will never have a perfect list like San Diego and don't take that offensively because Houston isn't the only big city that fails to measure up to San Diego, think Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, Phily, Detroit, Cleveland, Charlotte, and well 95% of the cities in the country.
City data is not ready to compare the cities in California with the other 49, you outsiders will never grasp the full package our cities offer and you wont ever appreciate it as much as we do. To you outsiders you have to combine your states and your regions in hopes of stacking up to us, we laugh at that hysterically. I can sense the jealousy each time someone makes an argument for "4 seasons" and those are the same people that think the beaches in Florida or North Carolina are better because they're warmer, laughable really that they prefer 10 degrees outside but in turn cant deal with 40 degree water. Intellectual dishonesty and jealousy.
This is not arrogance, this is truth that the people of San Diego have done all necessary to create the cleanest, safest, best rounded city America has to offer. Texas isn't a bad state and I do believe its the second state in the US in many ways (not politics, sorry) but that doesn't excuse it from falling short to California, the gap between the number one state and the second state is enormous and that speaks for itself about how far behind the rest of this country is to California IMO.
Last edited by scrantiX; 07-08-2012 at 10:38 PM..
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