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Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,726 posts, read 58,079,686 times
Reputation: 46195
Quote:
Originally Posted by COJeff
Right, that is thanks in part to high paying engineering and medical professions.
Finance is not a regulated profession. That can be learned without going to college.
Computer science ...
Accounting is included per my original "regulated profession" depending on career path.
Should of included law as that is regulated.
Medical, only worth is to major if becoming a MD or equivalent.
Agriculture you don't need a degree to garden or farm.
Dozens of others? You tell me.
There are zillions of options for a very successful career / earnings / business ownership which does not require college (and in fact, may be enhanced by NOT completing college (retained freedom to 'Think!')
There is no shortage of successful persons in the 'I QUIT college, or never bothered to go" Club.
and since I grew up in-the-trenches... I have many more examples. One of my good friends / classmates was part of a USD wide promotion of $120k jobs without college degree (Fire Chief in a Colorado town). Another friend just sold his business for $10m (no college degree), several more have 100+ employee companies with $5+ million / yr sales.
and then there are the unlimited SIMPLE ways...(make great wages / job security without a college degree)
RE agent,
Sales,
Developer
Builder
Skilled trades ((3) friends were Heavy Equip operators for Gov owned Energy jobs and they made over $200k / yr with OT... lots of triple time in Gov Jobs)
Law Enforcement
Mayor
Investor
Business owner
Inventor (BIG benefit to be an inventor OUTSIDE of the college 'sequestered' thought process.
Politics! (promoter...)
Entertainment
...
You will find the usual 'EVERYONE MUST-do-it-THEIR-way' posters in the C-D EDU forum to be current / previous leaches of the failed USA EDU disaster. Very sad... but hey... it's their gravy train (at the expense of USA 'schooled' (?) students. Pretty sad. Go hire a few of their 'successes'. Let me know how that works out for the success of your company. Just as here... and for their last 20 yrs of 'schooling'... your new employees will be sitting around on their thumbs wondering what to do next (waiting for instruction, when the OBVIOUS is before tier eyes). Works (?) for many, for generations and entire careers.
Right, that is thanks in part to high paying engineering and medical professions.
Finance is not a regulated profession. That can be learned without going to college.
Computer science is another degree that can be learned without going to college.
Accounting is included per my original "regulated profession" depending on career path.
Should of included law as that is regulated.
Medical, only worth is to major if becoming a MD or equivalent.
Agriculture you don't need a degree to garden or farm.
Dozens of others? You tell me.
You are living in a distorted world.
All this nonsense about regulated positions and all......sure in finance, IT, ag etc. a few/some people do well without degrees but the overwhelming share of great jobs/great paying jobs in those fields are held by people with degrees.
Your claim about medicine only making sense for MD and equivalents is just nuts. RN, speciality nursing, NP, PA, healthcare management etc. are all great careers that usually pay between quite well and phenomenally well.
A few more great careers that generally require degrees or in which the better jobs are dominated by those with degrees or better K-12 teaching, any kind of professorial work, actuarial sciences, economics, math, statistics, marketing, HR, PR, technical sales, industrial design, chemistry, various research areas, materials science, industrial production, atmospheric science, space science, physics, geoscience, architecture, meteorology, military officer, aviation management and more.
There are zillions of options for a very successful career / earnings / business ownership which does not require college (and in fact, may be enhanced by NOT completing college (retained freedom to 'Think!')
There is no shortage of successful persons in the 'I QUIT college, or never bothered to go" Club.
and since I grew up in-the-trenches... I have many more examples. One of my good friends / classmates was part of a USD wide promotion of $120k jobs without college degree (Fire Chief in a Colorado town). Another friend just sold his business for $10m (no college degree), several more have 100+ employee companies with $5+ million / yr sales.
and then there are the unlimited SIMPLE ways...(make great wages / job security without a college degree)
RE agent,
Sales,
Developer
Builder
Skilled trades ((3) friends were Heavy Equip operators for Gov owned Energy jobs and they made over $200k / yr with OT... lots of triple time in Gov Jobs)
Law Enforcement
Mayor
Investor
Business owner
Inventor (BIG benefit to be an inventor OUTSIDE of the college 'sequestered' thought process.
Politics! (promoter...)
Entertainment
...
You will find the usual 'EVERYONE MUST-do-it-THEIR-way' posters in the C-D EDU forum to be current / previous leaches of the failed USA EDU disaster. Very sad... but hey... it's their gravy train (at the expense of USA 'schooled' (?) students. Pretty sad. Go hire a few of their 'successes'. Let me know how that works out for the success of your company. Just as here... and for their last 20 yrs of 'schooling'... your new employees will be sitting around on their thumbs wondering what to do next (waiting for instruction, when the OBVIOUS is before tier eyes). Works (?) for many, for generations and entire careers.
Sure. But no matter how hard you play that game on balance across the entirety of the first world people with degrees outearn those without degrees significantly.
because colleges tend to select people who show traits that lead to them being successful... college didnt make them successful, they would have figured something else if college had not been there for them to use
you ever go to a basketball match and say wow playing basketball makes people taller? no, because they were tall already which made them good at it. or being fast or anything else... coaching lets you get better at things you already do well and teach you to do things you didnt. but it does not "make" people successful, you do that yourself
1. To your first point I generally agree but that's not really the point.
2. Most tall people are not good at basketball. Ergo being tall does not make people good at basketball.
3. I'd also add that amongst very technical fields say finance, economics, petroleum engineering, physics, mathematics, medicine at the MD and research levels etc. its pure folly to claim or imply that people can become proficient at those things on their own. Rigorous formal education, the kind of rigor far beyond most people's skill set/ability, set people in those fields and many others apart.
Sure. But no matter how hard you play that game on balance across the entirety of the first world people with degrees outearn those without degrees significantly.
USA EDU disaster?
Yes I was in a series of low pay of dead-end jobs before I went back to school. That’s precisely why I went back to school in my late 20s.
Another thing to concider - some of the best colleges in the US are very well funded. Look further than the sticker price. If your student is a heigh achiever, their hard work will be handsomely rewarded.
Also, transfer students are NOT typically given the same grants and scholarship awards as are incoming Freshman.
Going to a community college first can rob you of some very generous scholarship oppertunities.
In addition, students attending community colleges need cars. And cars need insurance. Just another expense that is a non issue for students who start and finish at the same univerity.
Another thing to concider - some of the best colleges in the US are very well funded. Look further than the sticker price. If your student is a heigh achiever, their hard work will be handsomely rewarded.
Also, transfer students are NOT typically given the same grants and scholarship awards as are incoming Freshman.
Going to a community college first can rob you of some very generous scholarship oppertunities.
In addition, students attending community colleges need cars. And cars need insurance. Just another expense that is a non issue for students who start and finish at the same univerity.
What are you basing that on exactly? I received a $6000 award from my transfer University when I entered my OT program, because I had the highest GPA of the incoming class of OT students. It didn’t matter at all that my GPA was earned in community college.
Not everyone needs a car. A lot of people live in areas that have decent transportation systems. You could take a train or bus from here to community college or a four year easily. Many community college students are older and work as well so most have cars in any case. I think most 4 year college students who commute to school have cars as well. I think living in a dorm and borrowing money to do so cost much more than a car does.
I want to add, community college is a great way to get a do over for those students who did not do well in high school or well enough to get accepted into the college they want to go to. I would never in a million years have been excepted into the University I got into if I hadn’t gone to CC first. It was such a competitive program, that the community college advisor told me not to even bother applying when I asked about it.
I think a many people that have posted on this thread are missing the point.
Most student loan debt is federally guaranteed. That means when the loans go bad, the US government (read: the U.S. taxpayer) cuts a check to the bank to pay off the loan.
So the system works like this:
1. The banks making the loans make money on every loan, no matter what- so they will lend as much money as they can.
2. This causes the price to spiral out of control.
3. This causes the default ratio to spiral of control.
See the problem?
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. Just as here... and for their last 20 yrs of 'schooling'... your new employees will be sitting around on their thumbs wondering what to do next 
(waiting for instruction, when the OBVIOUS is before tier eyes). Works (?) for many, for generations and entire careers.
