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Let me start off by saying that there are things I actually like about Pueblo--if I had to live on Colorado's Front Range, I would strongly consider it. But, thanks to Josseppie's never-ending clogging of just about every thread in the Colorado forum with "yay-Pueblo" stuff, I think some reality is in order. I will add that I have a number of friends who either still live in Pueblo or are from there.
First, geography. Of all the Front Range cities, with the possible exception of Greeley, Pueblo sits the farthest from the mountains--prospective residents should know that. Pueblo sits in the Arkansas River valley bottom. Yes, the mountains are visible from Pueblo, but--compared to other Front Range cities--they are distant. This obviously affects the climate. Pueblo, by Colorado standards, is mild in winter--but is also one of the hottest locations in Colorado in summertime, frequently with highs topping 100°. Also, because of its location flanking the Arkansas River, hot relatively (for Colorado) humid winds can blow up-valley with regularity in summer. That can make Pueblo both hot and muggy, by Colorado standards, fairly often in summer. It might not seem humid for those coming from humid climates in the Midwest, East, and South--but for Coloradans, Pueblo probably has one of the least agreeable climates in Colorado.
Second, the economy. I give Pueblo credit for having some success in pulling itself up by its bootstraps after its economic anchor--CF&I Steel--radically downsized in the early 1980's. Still, its economy is one of the weakest on the Front Range. Housing costs are relatively cheap in Pueblo, but still not cheap enough compared to local salaries and incomes. Pueblo is still overreliant on government employment, as well--though it certainly is not alone in Colorado in that regard.
Third, crime. This is the biggest "downer" for me about Pueblo. Pueblo has significant crime problems for a city of its size. One can see that by checking the crime stats available right here on City-Data. Pueblo's crime rates are significantly worse than both the state and national averages--and have remained consistently worse for years. It has made a national ranking on several national "worst" lists for crime for a city of its size. I have lived in Colorado for over a half-century, and Pueblo has had that reputation for nearly all of that time. I have two very good friends--both Pueblo natives--who moved out of Pueblo because of the city's crime reputation. There are numerous neighborhoods in Pueblo that I consider just flat dangerous, and some others that I consider "marginal."
Fourth, schools. Again, I give Pueblo credit for working to improve the quality of its schools, but many of them still fall short by both national and state standards. This, again, is a long-term problem from which Pueblo has suffered for as long as I can remember.
So, what do I like about Pueblo? Well, the main thing is that it is NOT some megaopolis like so many of Colorado's Front Range cities. The really sad irony is that--if Pueblo's boosters were actually successful in turning metro Pueblo into a city of several hundred thousand people like, say, Colorado Springs--it would likely destroy Pueblo's only real positive attribute: that it is not some oversprawled, traffic-ridden, just-like-every-other-piece-of-crap American metroplex. If Pueblo has a brain in its head, it would continue to concentrate on redeveloping its core downtown, its older neighborhoods (which contain some of the finest turn-of-the-century Victorian architecture in Colorado), and abandon its grandiose sprawl schemes that it currently seems to favor (like every other moronic American metroplex). Pueblo does not need to compete with the idiotic growth of the rest of the Front Range--it just needs to fix some of its lingering problems with crime and schools. Those two things would make it much more attractive to many people.
I will repeat what I have said frequently on this forum: There are plenty of places where people can read the Chamber of Commerce boosterism crap about someplace. About 90% of that is useless information. Readers here need to hear a realistic picture about what places are really like. That reality is usually something quite different that the "propaganda" disseminated by those who have some interest in "promoting" something.
Last edited by katzenfreund; 02-20-2009 at 12:06 PM..
That post is exactly why I am on here as many people in Colorado think that it is kewl to "talk down" Pueblo. Let me respond to what he says point by point.
1. Geography - I agree, Pueblo sits father from the mountains then say Colorado Springs and Fort Collins but not so much father then Downtown Denver. Pueblo is located in what we call the "banana belt" and like Jazz said, is warmer in the winter and we get less snow and it melts in a day or two also Pueblo is warmer in the summer with a little humidity but nothing like the south and east so to say Pueblo is "muggy" is flat out wrong. Also, Pueblo might top 100 but we rarely top 105 and never top 110 and at night it cools off to warm night that are great for outdoor activities. In fact I have heard Pueblo's climate called the "Goldi Lox" climate as its not as cold as our neighbors to the north and not as hot as our neighbors to the south. As far as location if you want to live in the mountains then I agree Pueblo is not for you and I have said that but personally I like its location, we are only a hour and half drive to the major ski resorts yet have warm days in the winter, 70 plus is not uncommon even in January, and when most people in the major cities are dealing with blizzards pueblo has a light snowfall so we have the beauty of a snowy day without all the mess. Finally, Pueblo, also, has more days of sunshine then the "sunshine state" Florida!
Pikes Peak View from CSU-P and one of the new dorms being built!
2 The economy - I have said many times Pueblo has had to deal with a major blow with the steel industry collapse in the 1980's. Before that Pueblo was one of the brightest spots in the state in fact Pueblo grew 40% from 1950 to 1960. To compare that would be like Colorado Springs losing 2 major bases in just a few years, how would they deal with that? That being said Pueblo has not let this keep us down and have done many things to help bring our economy back and I think made us a stronger city but instead of me talking about it I will post what CU Boulder says:
"Pueblo County - Historically, Pueblo County has experienced moderate population growth. This trend will change when the Pueblo Springs Ranch is complete. The 23,000-acre subdivision in northeast Pueblo County is expected to have about 75,000 households, or 200,000 people when completed. The Historic Arkansas Riverwalk Project has begun to pay the economic dividends its creators intended. In August 2007, the new 44,000-square-foot headquarters of the Professional Bull Riders Association was dedicated, and new restaurants and other establishments have opened near the new building."
We, also, have the worlds largest wind turbine plant being built here and the Gazette reported that Colorado Springs can not attract the kind of employers Pueblo can here is what they said:
"Even though it would have been nice to attract this company into our region, the reality is we just don't have any rail sites. We don't have the kind of heavy industrial capabilities the city of Pueblo has," White said. "It's really a win for southern Colorado. Not everyone who works at this plant will live in Pueblo."
Also this is moving along fast and will be the largest of its kind in the country, the Gazette came out for it:
BOISE, ID--(Marketwire - September 15, 2008) - Alternate Energy Holdings, Inc. (PINKSHEETS: AEHI) signed an agreement with a representative of the proposed Colorado Energy Park (CEP) southeast of Pueblo, CO to negotiate contracts on land and water rights for multiple large advanced nuclear reactors. The current CEP site is over 21,000 acres and is valued at $83 million, including substantial water use rights. CEP can host a mixed portfolio of renewable energy including solar PV and CSP, wind, biomass, small-hydro and nuclear. AEHI will seek a complement of multiple clean energy providers to fully utilize the large site and share the nuclear plant's transmission, water, road and rail infrastructure. When fully developed, CEP will help meet the state's and region's growing demand for electricity. At CEP, AEHI will help the US achieve energy independence, and meet the goal of increasing sources of green energy to reduce CO2 and toxic emissions from the global environment. The CEP as a merchant site should be able to wield power east of the Rockies as needed to meet demand.
Finally, people in Colorado always say that Pueblo is a small city in Colorado like its a bad thing then they say Pueblo should not grow like Denver or Colorado Springs, what is it? Personally, I want Pueblo to grow but grow smart and be a nice metro area of about 300,000 to 600,000 people. If we do it right Pueblo can continue to have the atmosphere we have now with the amentias of a larger city.
Crime - Every major city has issue with crime and Pueblo is no exception, but we are not as bad as people might want to say and not as bad as the cities in the mid west, east or south. And as they say people in glass houses should not throw rocks, this year has seen a increase in crime in Colorado Springs from gang activity to robberies.
Schools - I have always heard how Pueblo schools are bad, I have always disagreed. Just look at me I am not speacial yet I went to Pueblo Central got a degree from CSU Fort Collins and a second degree from CSU Pueblo finally I got a masters from the University of San Diego. My take is going to a school is more what you want to get out of it. As far as higher learning CSU - Pueblo is the fastest growing university in the state, here is the latest on that:
"According to recently released enrollment figures from the university, the school's spring 2009 head count is 4,310 students, an increase of 484 students from spring 2008 or a 12.7 percentage points jump."
Why? One reason has to do with Pueblo's climate! Students want to come to Pueblo where we have a major University, we are pert of the Colorado State system, with a football program yet have nice warm days in the winter where they are able to do outdoor activities.
Pueblo's newest football statidum with CSU-Pueblo's new football team playing on a nice warm fall night!
Water - This is something that Jazz did not mention, I wonder why? Pueblo has plenty of water, enough for a city close to 500,000 people, and is in the process of buying more. This will enable Pueblo to sustain our growth for the rest of the century and beyond.
Here is the latest on that:
More news today in the Pueblo Chieftain that shows how Pueblo has enough water for the rest of this century!
Water board OKs sale of Columbine
"The sale of the Columbine Ditch to a developer of a ski mountain at Minturn was approved by the Pueblo Board of Water Works on Tuesday, but Aurora still has one more chance to bid on the transmountain ditch."
"Water leases that will bring in nearly $450,000 this year and $140,000 per year, in 2009 dollars, for the next 40 years were approved Tuesday by the Pueblo Board of Water Works."
I could come on here with threads like "Colorado Springs is not good" or "no one should live in Denver" Or "Fort Collins, BLA" but I don't see the point. Every person has a city that fits their needs and Pueblo happens to fit mine and I am proud to talk about my city. I guess not everyone shares that philosophy.
Last edited by Josseppie; 02-20-2009 at 10:54 AM..
I don't think that ANY place could possibly measure up to the relentless boostering that Josseppie has given Pueblo. LOL...
JL's comments about crime in Pueblo appear to be measured in the data. Pueblo currently has what appears to be the highest city-data crime ranking in the state at 514.8, higher than Denver, Aurora, or Colorado Springs. I'll bet the crime ranking has something to do with Pueblo's less than stellar economy. Denver's crime ranking has dropped of late mainly due to gentrification, which displaces crime to the suburbs. Poor Pueblo doesn't have any suburbs that will take its criminals off its hands.
To be fair to Pueblo, though, there are FAR worse places for crime. Pueblo isn't anywhere on the "Top 100 cities for crime" on city-data. Try East St. Louis, Illinois, city-data crime ranking of 2392.5. Closer to home, there's Gallup, NM, ranking of 873.4. Being the "worst crime" in Colorado isn't all that bad compared to many other states.
Thank you for giving us all this information about Pueblo. I am now starting to realize that Pueblo should be considered as a great living/retirement destination for many people who are moving to the Southwest. As you pointing out it has a good balance of weather and great potential for the future.
When I first came to Colorado, I was told that it was a miserable dirty steel town. Well, I had to see for myself. It made me laugh because what I found was a comparatively small steel mill next to a very attractive little town. You got to understand that I grew up near Buffalo and there was a huge closing steel mill, that ran for miles along Lake Erie, surrounded by a decayed collapsing area. Comparing what was in Pueblo to that, or what was in PA, NJ etc. was laughable.
Yea, I know you want to call it a city--so what, it does not matter--it is still a fine village--Oh, I made the mistake again. It is just one of those things because when you come from New York and see all these smaller areas called a city, and the east makes big distinction between towns, villages, and cities--it just tickles my fancy.
I have been back to Pueblo a few times for business over the years but now, I have to make it a point to visit and really enjoy the area. I was brokering food at that time and I made calls at, I think, Andrews Produce--it was such a long time ago. There was also some small Jewish distributor that had an facility in the old downtown; the food warehouse and this vendor reminded me of someone out of a Dicken's novel; it had that anachronistic charm. Continue with the good work you are doing and I would also like to thank McGowdog for his great pictures and tour of restaurants--I am looking forward to a feast of culture and food, that is what makes me
Livecontent
Jazzlover, how would you compare Pueblo with Grand Junction? I know you aren't too fond of the latter, to put it mildly, but how would you compare the two using these same four metrics-- geography, economy, crime, schools?
Jazzlover, how would you compare Pueblo with Grand Junction? I know you aren't too fond of the latter, to put it mildly, but how would you compare the two using these same four metrics-- geography, economy, crime, schools?
15 years ago, there would have been no comparison. Grand Junction was better by a mile. The gap has really closed since then--mostly because Grand Junction has slid downhill greatly, in my estimation. I actually like some of the country relatively close to Pueblo (Greenhorn Mountains, Spanish Peaks, Arkansas River canyon, etc.) better than some areas around Grand Junction.
In my opinion, Grand Junction schools--though not without problems--are much better than Pueblo's. Grand Junction is also still much better than Pueblo when it comes to crime, but has deteriorated significantly. Pueblo's crime problem is a serious one for a city its size--comparing it to East St. Louis is probably not fair, but Pueblo has historically ranked very poorly when compared to cities of similar size when it comes to crime. People vote with their feet--a couple of the Pueblo natives I mentioned who moved away from Pueblo now live in Grand Junction--that should tell people something.
As far as climate goes, one thing I will say: given a choice of 100° in Pueblo or Grand Junction, I'll take Grand Junction every time--and I've spent plenty of 100° days in both.
As to livecontent's impression of Pueblo years ago--that was pretty much accurate. When I was kid back in the early 1960's, Pueblo had some of the worst air pollution in Colorado--a brownish/black acrid pall of smoke hung over most of the town from the steel mill just about all the time. It also had a pretty well-deserved reputation for being the most Mafia-influenced and controlled town in Colorado. Those things have changed a lot--for the better--since then.
As I said in my original post, I don't "hate" Pueblo. In fact, there are some things I like very much about it--one being that it is one of Colorado's most historic cities, with a lot of historical buildings, etc. still there. What I get tired of is seeing a constant stream of propaganda and unrelated thread hi-jacking to promote the place with no mention of the real facts of life about some of Pueblo's very significant problems. That paints a very inaccurate, misleading picture of Pueblo to readers of this forum, as well as clogging up other threads with stuff unrelated to the topic of the thread.
Hahaha! I have often wanted to "hijack" Jossie's threads to sing the praises of Canon City but, I can't type that fast!!HA!
I grew up in Denver, lived in Arvada...raised a son in Aurora......but Canon City, well, I'll keep it to myself!
You guys are too much fun, I swear!!
If you no longer wish to read Josse's Pueblo posts, consider using the ignore feature. There was no need to start a thread to diminish his contributions.
Here is another development planed for Pueblo that I forget to mention earlier.
"A 1,100-acre mixed use development straddling I-25 on the north side of Pueblo. Development plans call for a new interchange on I-25, which would become the terminus of Pueblo Blvd, extending Pueblo Blvd. to a full loop by-pass of I-25. The commercial area surrounding the new interchange will feature the best new life-style retail center site along the Colorado front range. Other commercial sites will be available for neighborhood shopping, office parks, and research and development facilities. The residential areas will feature covenant controlled communities with thematic architecture and a full amenity package, including finished parks with ponds and water features, a community pool, a club house, a K-8 school site, and extensive trails with links to the Fountain Creek Open Space."
The developing company is out of Denver and I called them yesterday and they want to brake ground this year!
To be honest eventually I would like to see a Pueblo sub forum but one that includes all of south east Colorado so people in Canon City, La Junta, Lamar etc would have a place to post pictures....
As far as Jazz says, I never "hi jack" threads I just have my own style that admittedly is about as positive as Mr Rodgers and pro Pueblo as anyone could be but that is how I am in real life as well. Some in here might not be use to my style but that is how I am and I don't see it changing.
Last edited by Josseppie; 02-20-2009 at 01:33 PM..
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Pueblo is a great place to live!
As you pointing out it has a good balance of weather and great potential for the future.
It is just one of those things because when you come from New York and see all these smaller areas called a city, and the east makes big distinction between towns, villages, and cities--it just tickles my fancy.
