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^ Agreed.
I don't think any area any city is ever truely "a finished project" to use your term, as cities are dynamic and continue to evolve. The issue that many locals and other in-staters have with Main Street is that the change is painfully slow. The energy and amount of pedestrians on Main Street today is not much different than it was 8 years ago when I moved to SC, but yet some trumpet it like it is Michigan Avenue (Magnificent Mile). Main Street is just about as average now, as it has been for years. It still has homeless, it still lacks a serious foodie scene, still lacks vibrant energy, etc, etc. It does have small starts happening like Mast and Nick, but it also has so many issues holding it back and keeping it from breaking out of mediocrity.
The black horse hitch railings in downtown Greenville are ugly in my opinion. And you can see as clearly as anyone that the palmetto trees on Main Street in Columbia are planted as accents. There are other young trees lining the entire corridor that are beginning to cast shade on the sidewalks, along with the mature oaks that have been there for years. No one expects Columbia's Main Street to have as much going on at this point as Greenville's entire downtown (Main Street). We've chosen not to pick up the Vista, Five Points, Finlay Park and Riverfront Park and cram them onto Main Street. And Transitions, the homeless services center, looks great. And no one is any better than the homeless, certainly not visitors who come looking for something to criticize in a city they hate.
No one expects Columbia's Main Street to have as much going on at this point as Greenville's entire downtown (Main Street).
Downtown Greenville is ONLY Main Street? You're a fool to state such. It's a shame that you won't step off Main to experience all that's offered. But, if it makes you feel better to compare to such, nothing will change your mind.
I was hesitant to post a message in this forum, as it already seems heavily "baited." I am certain that my comments will only add fuel to the fire.
I have said many times before that Columbia's Main Street, and its downtown more generally, has great potential. I have already seen progress since I have lived here. Yet, I think that everyone will agree that more needs to be done (with Main Street and with the downtown area, more broadly speaking).
One of my best friends recently got a job in Greenville. So, I have had the opportunity to visit him on a few occasions. This, of course, gave me the opportunity to see the highly touted Greenville downtown. I should say upfront that I grew up in a mega-city. Thus, I typically do not get impressed by downtown areas. That is why I was so critical of Columbia's downtown when I first moved here -- well, I am still critical, but that's for another thread and time. I will admit that I have been pleasantly surprised by Greenville's downtown. In fact, on a scale from 1 to 10, I will give it a 9+.
I mention this, not to ignite a Greenville/ Columbia debate, but rather to speculate about the future "possibilities" for Columbia's downtown development. The first thing that struck me about Greenville's downtown was that I was drawn to it, wanting to walk around and see more. By contrast, I have never felt drawn to Columbia's downtown. This made me wonder what Greenville has done right, and what Columbia needs to take note of.
Greenville is not a large city, yet their downtown feels "much more" cosmopolitan than Columbia's. There were significantly more people walking around Greenville's downtown compared to Columbia's. This has been the case every time I have visited. Greenville's downtown is pedestrian-friendly, with walking paths and several areas to sit around. This, of course, invites people to hangout in the downtown. Greenville has Falls Park, which is brilliantly done. I do not see anything in Columbia's downtown that is equivalent to it, which is somewhat ironic given that Columbia has a river in the downtown.
Overall, when I visit Greenville again I will visit the downtown area, just because I want to walk around. The very fact that I can say that speaks to the fact that Greenville has done something right with the planning of their downtown.
The title of this thread is: "It's not like there's nothing going in the Main Street area of Columbia." Of course there is. However, as Columbia's Main Street area, and downtown, continues to development, it would behoove planners to look more closely at what Greenville is doing right!
I am certain that some will disagree with what I wrote. That is fine, and their prerogative. I am simply being honest.
^ Agreed.
I don't think any area any city is ever truely "a finished project" to use your term, as cities are dynamic and continue to evolve. The issue that many locals and other in-staters have with Main Street is that the change is painfully slow. The energy and amount of pedestrians on Main Street today is not much different than it was 8 years ago when I moved to SC, but yet some trumpet it like it is Michigan Avenue (Magnificent Mile). Main Street is just about as average now, as it has been for years. It still has homeless, it still lacks a serious foodie scene, still lacks vibrant energy, etc, etc. It does have small starts happening like Mast and Nick, but it also has so many issues holding it back and keeping it from breaking out of mediocrity.
I don't see it. Who's crowing about Main? If anything, many Columbians go the other way, sporting an undue inferiority complex irrespective of the many reasons to be proud of and enjoy the town. That just exacerbates the problems that do exist.
But show me one reputable source comparing Columbia to a world class district like the mag mile. That quantity and quality of offerings doesn't exist outside of top 10 cities, and sure as heck can't be found in SC. That's a straw man.
Remind me to never let you watch me make an omelet. You'd take one look at the broken eggs and declare failure.
Without a doubt, this is the best statement I have seen on this board in a while. And, it is 100% true. For some, Columbia will never do anything right. And, that's fine, you always have some who claim to know all by stating such things as Whole Foods will not be in Columbia for many years because it is not on their website or stuffing carrots in frozen food dishes at Amy's is a better development than Amazon or my favorite..Haywood is like Lenox. You take the good with the bad. Most from Greenville contribute to this board in a positive way, some, well, not so much, in what ever name they are using.
But looking at the facts, being a realist as some would say, Main St has added 3 highrises in recent years adding to the downtown workforce, has streetscaped the parking area with a nice blend of trees and is starting to add retail. Additionally, more apartments/condos are appearing in renovated buildings which have great architectural details. That is not being a cheerleader, it is factual. And, this is happening while other downtown districts are developing towards Main and the river. Again, being a realist, Columbia has a very large downtown footprint. While there are many projects in development or under construction, they are not as concentrated into one area. One of the big challegnes is Assembly. Changing Assembly from a mini interstate to more of a city boulevard will do wonders for linking The Vista with Main.
With or without the homeless (Charlotte also has a homeless shelter on Tryon St and downtown Charlotte is doing great), Columbia should continue to do well for a number of reasons...1. The University is growing both in student population (while keeping high admission standards) and national exposure. 2. Across the country, downtowns are becoming more of a focal point once again, higher gas prices should accelerate this movement. 3. Columbia has a good mayor who seems intent on making the city better. Again, this is not cheerleading as some have suggested, no farting around here, it is factual.
They are two different cities. The comparisons are stupid and the Columbia threads aren't created to become spotlights on Greenville. That said, the streetscaping on Columbia's Main Street is prettier. Columbia can't help it that not even the Columbia Canal, let alone the Congaree, will fit under Main Street. And for my money the State House and grounds that bisect Columbia's Main Street are nicer than Reedy Falls Park or Finlay Park.
I was hesitant to post a message in this forum, as it already seems heavily "baited." I am certain that my comments will only add fuel to the fire.
I have said many times before that Columbia's Main Street, and its downtown more generally, has great potential. I have already seen progress since I have lived here. Yet, I think that everyone will agree that more needs to be done (with Main Street and with the downtown area, more broadly speaking).
One of my best friends recently got a job in Greenville. So, I have had the opportunity to visit him on a few occasions. This, of course, gave me the opportunity to see the highly touted Greenville downtown. I should say upfront that I grew up in a mega-city. Thus, I typically do not get impressed by downtown areas. That is why I was so critical of Columbia's downtown when I first moved here -- well, I am still critical, but that's for another thread and time. I will admit that I have been pleasantly surprised by Greenville's downtown. In fact, on a scale from 1 to 10, I will give it a 9+.
I mention this, not to ignite a Greenville/ Columbia debate, but rather to speculate about the future "possibilities" for Columbia's downtown development. The first thing that struck me about Greenville's downtown was that I was drawn to it, wanting to walk around and see more. By contrast, I have never felt drawn to Columbia's downtown. This made me wonder what Greenville has done right, and what Columbia needs to take note of.
Greenville is not a large city, yet their downtown feels "much more" cosmopolitan than Columbia's. There were significantly more people walking around Greenville's downtown compared to Columbia's. This has been the case every time I have visited. Greenville's downtown is pedestrian-friendly, with walking paths and several areas to sit around. This, of course, invites people to hangout in the downtown. Greenville has Falls Park, which is brilliantly done. I do not see anything in Columbia's downtown that is equivalent to it, which is somewhat ironic given that Columbia has a river in the downtown.
Overall, when I visit Greenville again I will visit the downtown area, just because I want to walk around. The very fact that I can say that speaks to the fact that Greenville has done something right with the planning of their downtown.
The title of this thread is: "It's not like there's nothing going in the Main Street area of Columbia." Of course there is. However, as Columbia's Main Street area, and downtown, continues to development, it would behoove planners to look more closely at what Greenville is doing right!
I am certain that some will disagree with what I wrote. That is fine, and their prerogative. I am simply being honest.
I don't think many would disagree with your assessment. Greenville has been working on downtown for many decades. And, it has evolved into a nice little inviting town.
But, I don't see Columbia becoming a replica of Greenville due to a number of reasons (and it should not work to do that). 1. The rivers are many blocks from Main and run parallel which rules out an intersection. To alleviate this, the best option is to cut down Assembly to tie the districts together. In addition, recent announcements like using the old rail bed as a walkway to connect The Vista with intown neighborhoods will also provide the necessary linkages between the downtown districts as will the riverfront greenways and parks. 2. Columbia is more vertical on Main. While some see this as a bad thing, I like the mixture of high and low rise buildings. I also like a lot of the street level facades which provide great store fronts. 3. Columbia has a much larger footprint downtown. While it is an advantage, it also takes much more to fill in the area to create a "feel". That being said, I think the best Main St photo shot in SC is looking down Main St towards the state house.
And, it is not a bad thing to develop differently than Greenville. Charlotte did not develop like Greenville and is doing great, Charleston did their own thing and there is nothing else like it in SC. Columbia's best option is to look at how the city is configured and work to provide linkages between the districts as they continue to evolve. In the end, the larger footprint, links down to the river and university offerings should, and my bet is will, make a good downtown better.
Downtown Greenville is ONLY Main Street? You're a fool to state such. It's a shame that you won't step off Main to experience all that's offered. But, if it makes you feel better to compare to such, nothing will change your mind.
I think that's a bit of a stretch as well gvillesc. I would think of our Gervais street in the Vista to have about the same activity level as Greenville's Main Street (comparatively for all purposes) and now we are expanding up towards and onto Main, like how Greenville has expanded into the West End and side streets more recently.
Both cities are having their own issues with redeveloping their city centers. Columbia needs to focus on connectivity between the Vista and Main Street and Greenville needs to focus on keeping the far end of Main as lively as it's ever been as development moves towards Westend.
I really enjoy watching these two sister cities grow over the years.
I don't think many would disagree with your assessment. Greenville has been working on downtown for many decades. And, it has evolved into a nice little inviting town.
But, I don't see Columbia becoming a replica of Greenville due to a number of reasons (and it should not work to do that). 1. The rivers are many blocks from Main and run parallel which rules out an intersection. To alleviate this, the best option is to cut down Assembly to tie the districts together. In addition, recent announcements like using the old rail bed as a walkway to connect The Vista with intown neighborhoods will also provide the necessary linkages between the downtown districts as will the riverfront greenways and parks. 2. Columbia is more vertical on Main. While some see this as a bad thing, I like the mixture of high and low rise buildings. I also like a lot of the street level facades which provide great store fronts. 3. Columbia has a much larger footprint downtown. While it is an advantage, it also takes much more to fill in the area to create a "feel". That being said, I think the best Main St photo shot in SC is looking down Main St towards the state house.
And, it is not a bad thing to develop differently than Greenville. Charlotte did not develop like Greenville and is doing great, Charleston did their own thing and there is nothing else like it in SC. Columbia's best option is to look at how the city is configured and work to provide linkages between the districts as they continue to evolve. In the end, the larger footprint, links down to the river and university offerings should, and my bet is will, make a good downtown better.
Your last paragraph speaks to what city leaders are in the process of figuring out and designing.
I think that's a bit of a stretch as well gvillesc. I would think of our Gervais street in the Vista to have about the same activity level as Greenville's Main Street (comparatively for all purposes) and now we are expanding up towards and onto Main, like how Greenville has expanded into the West End and side streets more recently.
Both cities are having their own issues with redeveloping their city centers. Columbia needs to focus on connectivity between the Vista and Main Street and Greenville needs to focus on keeping the far end of Main as lively as it's ever been as development moves towards Westend.
I really enjoy watching these two sister cities grow over the years.
Yeah, too bad some on here have made it their citydata.com mission to bash one city by unfairly comparing it to their own.
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