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On another thread relating to bullying, there was a discussion of the relative involvement of parents and perhaps other adults in intervening in bullying situations. This recognizes that school authorities cannot be all places at all times.
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
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Originally Posted by jbgusa
Literally during the first week of school, Charlie yanked a high stool out from under me in the school's weather center. It was lucky I wasn't badly hurt. Given my near-expulsion from school the previous June, I wasn't about to take this one up with the school.
My father came home early from work that day, feeling the early stages of the cancer remission that would kill him almost four months later to the day. My father got on the phone with Charlie's father. I didn't get to hear the conversation but I heard not a word from Charlie from that September day in 1972 until his unlamented (by me) death 40 years later. Parental involvement has a part if the school won't help.
The problem is, what about people like me whose parents did not do anything to stop bullying? Also, although it sounds like your father was supportive, it sounds like your mother just wanted to cooperate with the school.
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
But the premise of this thread is cases where adults do not want to stop bullying or are unable to stop it. What should the kids do in this case?
In defense of my mother, which is hard, she was devoutly loyal. But her way of proceeding was always an extreme, either stirring the pot ineffectually (became a big thing later in life) or "going along to get along." We lived in a largely affluent village with a strong Jewish minority, of which we were among. Most families and children presented a persona of perfection, as if they could do no wrong, and had no problems. Thus my bullying issues were, for public purposes, swept under the rug for the most part.
She was active in trying to help me build friendships and we actually did, with her organizing, vacation with another couple whose son was friendly with me. The problem with that friendship, and a few other such friendships, was that the children were privately friendly with me but didn't want to "get involved" in defending against the bullying. (There was one child ironically in a grade younger that did get involved ans starting at 10th grade level that was common). But I digress.
My mother wanted to cooperate in moving me to a private school partially to avoid damage to her reputation. But again in her defense she was convinced that in a district such as ours, if the parents, faculty and administration wanted you out, they could and would make your life miserable. They could and would "find incidents." An example was my allegedly biting a dog, clearly something that only someone with real problems would do. Basically that's what she said the night my father called the bully's parents.
In hindsight my father's intervention would not have worked in Grades K-8. The intervention was in 10th grade. In 9th grade it might have worked. In our K-8 school, which had a total of about 80-90 graduating students, there were perhaps 10-12 active bullies. The difference was that the bullies were a very small percentage of the school class, about 5-7 out of about 500 students. The numerical dynamic was different. Also the maturity of the non-bullying students, from the school that we "merged" into for 9-12 was far higher.
Thus, I see my mother's point. My father happened to have a very good instinct for when to get involved, and how.
Now, as a father, my wife and I have a more harmonious relationship than our parents did. And one of our children is high-functioning special needs. I rarely have needed to get involved, but various schools and people know that when I do that while my demeanor is constructive, we as a couple are furious about something.
I was interested in other peoples' experiences with "going outside the system" on bullying and similar problems.
I was interested in other peoples' experiences with "going outside the system" on bullying and similar problems.
When we lived in Baltimore I had to make an end run around the teachers and administration who did nothing about the 4-6 boys who were bullying my son. I finally found one of the Dad's of the kids who were bullying him. I Stopped it.
I'm not a big fan of schools, teachers, and administrators when it comes to how they handle bullying. Seems like they make mountains out of molehills, ignore the truly bad stuff, and play lip service to it all.
Don't even talk to me about bullying from girls. Jesus Christ they're horrific.
Schools won't even deal with regular incidents. These two incidents happened at a friend's kids elementary, wealthy district in the NE.
1st incident: A third grade boy told a third grade girl on the bus home: "s--k my d--k" She didn't know what he meant, ended up crying as he taunted her. School did NOTHING.
2nd incident: between two first grade boys: "I'm going to kill you and your two moms." School did nothing. Mom filed a police report because this kid has a bullying history. Police said they couldn't do anything because the threatened boy was not a "protected class citizen." Translation? because the boy was not a minority, it wasn't a crime. Had he been a minority, well, then THAT makes the threat actionable.
Again, the whole premise of this thread is adults that are unwilling or unable to stop bullying, and/or where a punish all doctrine exists either on paper or in practice. Especially cases where punishments are designed (whether intentionally or not) to disproportionately punish the high achieving students.
When we lived in Baltimore I had to make an end run around the teachers and administration who did nothing about the 4-6 boys who were bullying my son. I finally found one of the Dad's of the kids who were bullying him. I Stopped it.
I'm not a big fan of schools, teachers, and administrators when it comes to how they handle bullying. Seems like they make mountains out of molehills, ignore the truly bad stuff, and play lip service to it all.
That, unfortunately, is very true. I think that by blowing a few minor cases out of proportion, they give the appearance that they are doing something about bullying, while allowing the real bullying to continue.
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Don't even talk to me about bullying from girls. Jesus Christ they're horrific.
Are you referring to physical or emotional bullying by girls, or both?
Schools usually encourage the worst bullies. The teachers just don't want to deal with it. 3 options and all suck.
1. Teach your kid to fight so he can beat the crap out of the bully.
2. Have a male beat the kids dad up or a female best the mom up.
3. Involve the police and record it then press charges.
In another thread, I posted the only 3 options, none of which work and end up with the same result:
1. Tell an adult: the adult will likely ignore it, and tell you to "stay away from him" or "I didn't see it". The bullying will not stop. And, if it's a school that punishes everybody, you will likely get punished.
2. Fight back: Obviously a bad idea if the bully is significantly bigger or stronger, or if an individual is being bullied by a group. Also, how do you "fight back" if the bullying is not physical? Also, unfortunately results in punishment for the person who fights back. Often, that punishment disproportionately punishes high achieving students, such as disqualification from honor roll or ineligibility for extra-curricular activities. Often, that is exactly what the bully wants, and is trying to bait the victim into fighting back so that he/she gets in trouble.
3. Do nothing: not likely to stop the bullying. And, eventually, the victim will reach his breaking point, and will end up with either #1 or 2 above.
Any other solutions? It seems that the only possibly effective solution is for parents to get involved. But when one's parents don't want to get involved (such as mine), I don't see what other options the kid has.
Schools usually encourage the worst bullies. The teachers just don't want to deal with it. 3 options and all suck.
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
In another thread, I posted the only 3 options, none of which work and end up with the same result:
I think the real bottom line here is that the adult employees, from the teachers to the administrators to the police don't care about "kiddie problems." They have to appear to be involved and to care but in realty they view most of the fights as "he started it," and then "no he started it." Any psychological problems are someone else's problem, down the road.
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