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Old 08-18-2017, 08:47 PM
 
25 posts, read 20,407 times
Reputation: 10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
[/b]

Where did you get this from? I have seen hundreds of Portuguese results and the results you posted incorporate reference populations from different vendors but even then the names are a bit different.

23 & Me uses Southern European as a reference population

No company uses Northern Africa AncestryDNA uses Africa North, 23 & Me uses North African and FTDNA uses North Africa

No company currently uses Jewish Diaspora( that was FTDNA 1.0)

FTDNA uses West & Central Europe

FTDNA uses Asia Minor

23 & Me uses British and Irish

These results aren't typical to start 23% total North African+Middle East I've never seen this and like I said I've seen hundreds of results.

Next point you posted results using reference populations that are no longer in use Exhibit A Jewish Diaspora. A reference population name not used by any commercial vendor Exhibit B Northern Africa. In addition you have reference population names from two different vendors FTDNA and 23 & Me Exhibit C.

So explain yourself.

Yes, indeed Iberians are predominantly Southern Europeans that's true. There is no question about it. However throughout there has been various migrations from various people including Northern Africans such as the Moors and so on. My results are much more deeper in ancestry than what you have presented. I can explain.
This applies only to groups of people who are native to Iberia, the peninsula of Spain and Portugal.
*74% (Southern Europe) The large Southern European component reflects the strong influence of agriculturalists from the Fertile Crescent in the Middle-East who arrived there some 10,000 years ago.
*5% (Western and Central Europe)
*2% (Great Britain and Ireland)
The Western European and Great Britain and Ireland components likely comes from mixture or interbreeding with neighboring groups with genetic links to the pre-Agricultural population of Europe - the earlier settlers.
9% (Northern Africa)
The North African component reflects the historic migrations of populations north across the straight
of Gibraltar into Iberia for the past 2,000 years.
5% (Jewish Diaspora)
4% (Asia Minor)
I think there is no need for explanation, pretty simple. We all the history of the various Jewish groups within Europe, with their origins from Palestine. They intermingled with Europeans for a very long time giving rise to Jewish Diaspora component.
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Old 08-18-2017, 10:04 PM
 
25 posts, read 20,407 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
[/b]

Where did you get this from? I have seen hundreds of Portuguese results and the results you posted incorporate reference populations from different vendors but even then the names are a bit different.

23 & Me uses Southern European as a reference population

No company uses Northern Africa AncestryDNA uses Africa North, 23 & Me uses North African and FTDNA uses North Africa

No company currently uses Jewish Diaspora( that was FTDNA 1.0)

FTDNA uses West & Central Europe

FTDNA uses Asia Minor

23 & Me uses British and Irish

These results aren't typical to start 23% total North African+Middle East I've never seen this and like I said I've seen hundreds of results.

Next point you posted results using reference populations that are no longer in use Exhibit A Jewish Diaspora. A reference population name not used by any commercial vendor Exhibit B Northern Africa. In addition you have reference population names from two different vendors FTDNA and 23 & Me Exhibit C.

So explain yourself.

You could always compare it and see the difference with other Southern European populations studied.


Greek genome:
79% (Southern Europe)
9% (Asia Minor)
7% (Eastern Europe)
2% (Northern Africa)
2% (Jewish Diaspora)


Sardinian (Italy) genome:5
76% (Southern Europe)
11% (Northern Africa)
4% (Western and Central Europe)
3% (Jewish Diaspora)
3% (Arabia)
2% (Asia Minor)


Tuscan (Italy) genome:
59% (Southern Europe)
28% (Western and Central Europe)
4% (Asia Minor)
3% (Eastern Europe)
2% (Northern Africa)
2% (Jewish Diaspora)


Bulgarian genome:
55% (Eastern Europe)
14% (Asia Minor)
12% (Western and Central Europe)
8% (Southern Europe)
6% (Central Asia)
2% (Scandinavia)


Romanian genome:
48% (Eastern Europe)
21% (Southern Europe)
9% (Asia Minor)
6% (Western and Central Europe)
6% (Central Asia)
5% (Jewish Diaspora)
3% (Eastern Asia)
2% (Finland and Northern Siberia)
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Old 08-19-2017, 03:32 AM
 
505 posts, read 393,120 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
They are anything but fraternal twins, only an outsider could get that idea.


They are twins that have lived back to back and stabbing each other during 400 years.

Other than that, Portugal was in origin an offshot of the kingdom of Leon, just another kingdom emating out of the reconquest.

It was as if the kingdom of Navarre or Catalonia would have remained independent and protected by France during the last 400 years, they would be far more different to Spain than Portugal.
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:13 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,738,024 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by farinello View Post
They are twins that have lived back to back and stabbing each other during 400 years.

Other than that, Portugal was in origin an offshot of the kingdom of Leon, just another kingdom emating out of the reconquest.

It was as if the kingdom of Navarre or Catalonia would have remained independent and protected by France during the last 400 years, they would be far more different to Spain than Portugal.
400 years? Portugal has been a separate entity for more than a millennium. A lot has happened during that time, including genetically thanks to a rather different development of Portugal on the one hand and what would later become Spain (which is rather mixed itself, not at all heterogeneous) on the other.
And even before Portugal became a territorial unit, there were very specific things going on within that territory, like the settlement of certain peoples roaming Europe back then. Genetically, a lot of Portuguese (about 20% due to the forced conversion to Christianity) also have Jewish ancestry.
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:28 AM
 
505 posts, read 393,120 times
Reputation: 249
All Kingdoms in the peninsula were separated entities until 1492, but not until 1715 the country became united politically.

A lot of Spanish descend from Sephardic Jews. Sepharah is Hispania. All my family on my mother side were Jewish until 1370.

There are entire cities that are mostly Jewish descent, conversed, of course, Palma de Malloca, Ribadavia, bordering Portugal, etc.

Portuguese do look the same than Spanish, really.
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:50 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,738,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farinello View Post
All Kingdoms in the peninsula were separated entities until 1492, but not until 1715 the country became united politically.

A lot of Spanish descend from Sephardic Jews. Sepharah is Hispania. All my family on my mother side were Jewish until 1370.

There are entire cities that are mostly Jewish descent, conversed, of course, Palma de Malloca, Ribadavia, bordering Portugal, etc.

Portuguese do look the same than Spanish, really.
That's the point, when Spain became a single entity, the individual units gradually fused together, not least due to centralization. Portugal on the other hand has gone its own way for more than a millennium.

And no, on average the Portuguese do not look like the Spaniards. Even I as an alien to the Iberian peninsula can tell the difference, or maybe because I am not from here. Of course some people look similar, but that goes for entire southern Europe and the Middle East thanks to the Greek, Phoenicians etc. settling here.
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:13 AM
AFP
 
7,412 posts, read 6,893,856 times
Reputation: 6632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
400 years? Portugal has been a separate entity for more than a millennium. A lot has happened during that time, including genetically thanks to a rather different development of Portugal on the one hand and what would later become Spain (which is rather mixed itself, not at all heterogeneous) on the other.
And even before Portugal became a territorial unit, there were very specific things going on within that territory, like the settlement of certain peoples roaming Europe back then. Genetically, a lot of Portuguese (about 20% due to the forced conversion to Christianity) also have Jewish ancestry.




There was a paper written about 11 years ago looking at Y-DNA haplogroups that claimed this but it isn't correct. The author claimed about 10% of the lineages were from North Africa and 20% were Jewish complete BS. He conflated DNA samples from the Neolithic, the Phoenicians, and other groups in there. If you look in the genealogy forum Portuguese people have posted their results. Just look under Portuguese DNA and those results are typical.
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:25 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,738,024 times
Reputation: 9728
I am not in a position to contradict those experts, frankly:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2668061/
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:03 AM
 
25 posts, read 20,407 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by farinello View Post
They are twins that have lived back to back and stabbing each other during 400 years.

Other than that, Portugal was in origin an offshot of the kingdom of Leon, just another kingdom emating out of the reconquest.

It was as if the kingdom of Navarre or Catalonia would have remained independent and protected by France during the last 400 years, they would be far more different to Spain than Portugal.

True.
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:05 AM
 
25 posts, read 20,407 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
400 years? Portugal has been a separate entity for more than a millennium. A lot has happened during that time, including genetically thanks to a rather different development of Portugal on the one hand and what would later become Spain (which is rather mixed itself, not at all heterogeneous) on the other.
And even before Portugal became a territorial unit, there were very specific things going on within that territory, like the settlement of certain peoples roaming Europe back then. Genetically, a lot of Portuguese (about 20% due to the forced conversion to Christianity) also have Jewish ancestry.

Yes, indeed.
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