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The study did not look at deep clades they analyzed STR sequences I'm guessing 12 markers which is useless for determining if someone is from a sub clade frequently found in Jews. The science is much more precise now than 2008. Haplogroups J1, J2, T,which are commonly found in Sephardic Jews, Ashkenazi Jews, and Mizrahi Jews are also very common in other populations in the middle east and it's common for Jews to share some STR markers with Palestinians, Jordanians, Lebanese etc. they trace back to a common Canaanite ancestry that predates the Jewish faith which is about 4,000 years old at most whereas haplogroups and many subclades of haplogroups predate the founding of the Jewish religion.
There was some push back to that study when it came out and it is clear now for those of us that follow this closely and remain updated with the current findings and science that the Jewish contribution is much lower the the Phoenician.
The other problem with that study is that it attributed all E haplogroups to the North African Muslims which is wrong there were multiple sources for E and the one that can be attributed to North Africa is E-M81 this mutation is estimated to have formed 14,100 YBP but but luckily all the samples that have so far been tested trace to a common ancestor who is estimated to have lived 2,300 YBP according to the best current science.
The other thing to consider is that Y-DNA is a tiny amount of one's DNA that provides clues as it relates to ancestry although it is very useful utilizing only Y-DNA provides a distorted picture, some other tools are mtDNA and looking at SNP's. The problem with SNP's currently is that the science is exact but not refined enough because there is so much overlap as it relates to SNP's in European populations.
You haven't got any single idea about what you're talking about. Just a huge complex...
lol did you read my comment well? Did you seek for any European haplogrup map on Google? No, you didn't. And that 3 century thing was 2, and that was the Caliphate of Granada btw. By 1249 most of Spain was already Christian again. Yes, Spain was repopulated by the Catholic Kings, open a history book. It's not that hard! Portugal wasn't.
I can't post images or links because I tried before but they don't show up. It's because i'm new probably. Btw, the most famous and accurate haplogrup map shows this:
Portugal non European haplogrups:
E3b ~20% (Greek, Near Eastern, North African)
G 5% (Phoenician, Anatolian)
K 3-4% (Middle Eastern, North African)
J1 15% (Jewish, Arabic)
So finally about 40% of the Portuguese haplogrups are not European. Still, 15-18% of them are considered fully white.
In Spain the E3b is about 6-7%, G and K together about 5%, J1 about 5%. At most, Spain has 16% of those haplogrups vs 42-43% of Portugal ... in fact Spain has less of each of those than France or Switzerland, about 75% of Spain is only R1b, being the 2nd biggest country with the predominance of this haplogrup after Ireland and almost equal to Scotland, which has just 2-3% less R1b.
Still, Ireland, Scotland, France or Switzerland got much more Aryan, Slavic, Nordic, Germanic or Saxon haplogrups, specially Ireland and Scotland (obviously) so that's why the average Spaniard has a normal white skin (or Caucasian) but dark brown hair and brown eyes. Not a very light skin but neither a dark one, it's like in the middle of a typical Frenchman or an Italian.
The average Spaniard is pretty similar to the average French guy but with darker hair and a considerable less prevalence of light eyes, but considerably more than in Portugal, Greece or Cyprus. Just a bit more than Italy, as the north of Italy has lots of central European haplogrups with light eyes.
The average Portuguese guy got a slightly darker hair and mostly brown eyes but with a bit darker, more olive tanned type of skin. It's still considered white and purely southern European, just as Sicilians, the majority of Greeks or Cypriots. There are also many southern Spaniards and some Galicians with this type of skin as well as many southern Frenchmans, but they're not the average as in Portugal or Cyprus. Don't have a complex for this, we are all humans mate...
Sorry you have no idea what you are talking about regarding haplogroups seriously it is so obvious to me that you have done a little goggling and made up a BS post.
E3b? Seriously no one refers to that subclade as E3b anymore(E-M215 or E1b1b) is what it is called update your outdated knowledge base. This haplogroup is very linked to Middle Eastern Neolithic Farmers and is found throughout Europe.
G(More precisely G2a is closely linked to the Earliest European farmers which expanded from Anatolia and found throughout Europe.
Y-dna K is rarely found in Portugal I'm guessing your trying to refer to T
J1(not all lineages are Semetic) and the 15% you wrote is a straight up falsehood. Come on at least make it sound a little credible.
Your post is full of misinformation and straight up false information I'm guessing you think it will upset some Portuguese that you state 40% the haplogroups are not even European.
Sorry you have no idea what you are talking about regarding haplogroups seriously it is so obvious to me that you have done a little goggling and made up a BS post.
E3b? Seriously no one refers to that subclade as E3b anymore(E-M215 or E1b1b) is what it is called update your outdated knowledge base. This haplogroup is very linked to Middle Eastern Neolithic Farmers and is found throughout Europe.
G(More precisely G2a is closely linked to the Earliest European farmers which expanded from Anatolia and found throughout Europe.
Y-dna K is rarely found in Portugal I'm guessing your trying to refer to T
J1(not all lineages are Semetic) and the 15% you wrote is a straight up falsehood. Come on at least make it sound a little credible.
Your post is full of misinformation and straight up false information I'm guessing you think it will upset some Portuguese that you state 40% the haplogroups are not even European.
Exactly AFP, but this guy thinks this a matter of complex. Who cares...
Just some random data:
Blond hair ( light brown shades excluded)
Portugal - 11%
Greece - 10.5%
Spain - 9%
Italy - 8.2%
Spain is a Mediterranean country. Approximately 9.5% of the Spaniards as a whole are blonde. Well comparable to Portugal (11%), Greece (10.7%), Bulgaria (10.5%) and Italy (8.2%).
As typical only the Portuguese guys deny it all and are ultra defensive when claiming the reality.
Not rare, it happens on every Genetic forum. Even if you don't like it, just search for any haplogrup map and do a reality check... just Cyprus has more non European admixture than Portugal. And the blonde hair data is fake... Portugal hasn't even got a 5% of blond hair prevalence while Greece surpasses 15%. Still, there are plenty of olive skinned blondes specially in Greece or Albania so still i'm right, Portuguese people are the 2nd darkest Europeans. Anyone knows it, unless Portuguese guys who deny it. Not sure why such a complex from your part guys, no one says that you are not white.
As typical only the Portuguese guys deny it all and are ultra defensive when claiming the reality.
Not rare, it happens on every Genetic forum. Even if you don't like it, just search for any haplogrup map and do a reality check... just Cyprus has more non European admixture than Portugal. And the blonde hair data is fake... Portugal hasn't even got a 5% of blond hair prevalence while Greece surpasses 15%. Still, there are plenty of olive skinned blondes specially in Greece or Albania so still i'm right, Portuguese people are the 2nd darkest Europeans. Anyone knows it, unless Portuguese guys who deny it. Not sure why such a complex from your part guys, no one says that you are not white.
The problem is you posted false information and your knowledge level is less than at a novice level basically you don't know how to interpret the data and posted things that anyone with basic understanding can decipher as BS. Then you switched your argument to Portuguese are ultra defensive and are in denial of reality. The problem is that you posted flat out lies in an attempt to get a response and got checked. Yes about 15 years ago the Portuguese became the target of White TRash bigots who posted a lot of false information online. Now you come along posting false information that anyone with basic knowledge in genetics can see as lies.
So What's your problem are you looking for a flame war? Because you will lose guaranteed.
11% blonde, I just don't see that in Portugal, sorry. Maybe in some pockets in the North of the country, but in the rest of the country the vast majority of blonde people (overwhelmingly women) have dyed their hair. Just pass by a schoolyard, you will hardly find any blonde kids (light brown hair has been excluded, and even that I don't see often). Or take a look at men (who, like kids, hardly ever dye their hair), there are hardly any blonde men.
It's more like 1 in 25 than 1 in 10.
The study did not look at deep clades they analyzed STR sequences I'm guessing 12 markers which is useless for determining if someone is from a sub clade frequently found in Jews. The science is much more precise now than 2008. Haplogroups J1, J2, T,which are commonly found in Sephardic Jews, Ashkenazi Jews, and Mizrahi Jews are also very common in other populations in the middle east and it's common for Jews to share some STR markers with Palestinians, Jordanians, Lebanese etc. they trace back to a common Canaanite ancestry that predates the Jewish faith which is about 4,000 years old at most whereas haplogroups and many subclades of haplogroups predate the founding of the Jewish religion.
There was some push back to that study when it came out and it is clear now for those of us that follow this closely and remain updated with the current findings and science that the Jewish contribution is much lower the the Phoenician.
The other problem with that study is that it attributed all E haplogroups to the North African Muslims which is wrong there were multiple sources for E and the one that can be attributed to North Africa is E-M81 this mutation is estimated to have formed 14,100 YBP but but luckily all the samples that have so far been tested trace to a common ancestor who is estimated to have lived 2,300 YBP according to the best current science.
The other thing to consider is that Y-DNA is a tiny amount of one's DNA that provides clues as it relates to ancestry although it is very useful utilizing only Y-DNA provides a distorted picture, some other tools are mtDNA and looking at SNP's. The problem with SNP's currently is that the science is exact but not refined enough because there is so much overlap as it relates to SNP's in European populations.
Sure, there is no clear Jewish gene as such, Jews did not fall from the sky, they are no different or special, but closely related to other peoples in that region.
There will also be strong regional differences, places like Tomar have a strong Jewish history. Up to 40 % of the population used to be Jewish after Jews expelled from Spain resettled in Tomar.
Sure, there is no clear Jewish gene as such, Jews did not fall from the sky, they are no different or special, but closely related to other peoples in that region.
There will also be strong regional differences, places like Tomar have a strong Jewish history. Up to 40 % of the population used to be Jewish after Jews expelled from Spain resettled in Tomar.
Tomar was the headquarters of The Nights Templar in Portugal. They became The Knights of Christ under the Order of Christ in Portugal in 1319. The order funded much of the exploration that took place early on which lead to the huge expansion of the Portuguese Empire. Prince Henry the Navigator was at the head of the Knights and controlled the resources when he died in 1460. Because of the this funding the Order it became very rich and powerful in Portugal during the Age of Discoveries.
As typical only the Portuguese guys deny it all and are ultra defensive when claiming the reality.
Not rare, it happens on every Genetic forum. Even if you don't like it, just search for any haplogrup map and do a reality check... just Cyprus has more non European admixture than Portugal. And the blonde hair data is fake... Portugal hasn't even got a 5% of blond hair prevalence while Greece surpasses 15%. Still, there are plenty of olive skinned blondes specially in Greece or Albania so still i'm right, Portuguese people are the 2nd darkest Europeans. Anyone knows it, unless Portuguese guys who deny it. Not sure why such a complex from your part guys, no one says that you are not white.
You are the funniest guy on this forum. When you write something it is an absolute truth but when other user writes and shows you a different perspective, it turns out to be fake. If someone has any kind of complex that one is you. You think that I bother when you say Portuguese are the 2nd darkest in Europe? I don't care if we are the 2nd darkest or the 2nd blondest. On opposite, you underline this point with huge importance. Ask an Englishman, German, Polish or Swedish if they see any difference between a Spanish or a Portuguese. For sure they will say no. My wife has Spanish family, my grandmother lived almost 20 years in Madrid and I already visited Spain at least 20 times. So I know very well my neighbours.
Just to finish this conversation the percentage of blond hair people in the north of Portugal is almost 13% and this is explained due to waves of Celts, Suebi and Visigoths and between 5 to 7% in the South.
It's hard to compare skin color because culture plays a big role (civil servants/scientists vs fishermen/farmers). One would have to compare the potential to turn dark, which seems huge here in Portugal. People here turn dark so easily (if they want to and behave accordingly), while I would simply get a sunburn
Portuguese who avoid the sun are as pale as Central Europeans.
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