People of Spain and People of Portugal - very similar or very different? (Sicilian, Greece)
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There was a paper written about 11 years ago looking at Y-DNA haplogroups that claimed this but it isn't correct. The author claimed about 10% of the lineages were from North Africa and 20% were Jewish complete BS. He conflated DNA samples from the Neolithic, the Phoenicians, and other groups in there. If you look in the genealogy forum Portuguese people have posted their results. Just look under Portuguese DNA and those results are typical.
There are many people that came from North Africa during the neolithic to Europe, not to forget Carthagineans, Libyan-Phoenicians and Roman settlers from the near east, etc. Hitler and Napoleon, for example, had NA lineage.
All Kingdoms in the peninsula were separated entities until 1492, but not until 1715 the country became united politically.
A lot of Spanish descend from Sephardic Jews. Sepharah is Hispania. All my family on my mother side were Jewish until 1370.
There are entire cities that are mostly Jewish descent, conversed, of course, Palma de Malloca, Ribadavia, bordering Portugal, etc.
Portuguese do look the same than Spanish, really.
Absolutely! There were many Jews who settled or resided in Iberia, but at one time or another were forced to either emigrate to Western and Northern European nations, the Americas or convert to Christianity or even face death. So for those who converted to Christianity and blended in the average Iberian population, it has been hard to trace their lineages. Due to the fact that many Jews hid their ethnicity to avoid persecution. Nevertheless, We are now able to trace people of such lineage through the study of the genome.
Ashkenazi Jewish genome:
Referring to groups with cultural and religious affinities of Judaism in Eastern and Central Europe, as well as the Americas. These groups can trace their deep ancestry to Israel and the region of the Middle-East. Most of these groups have however been living in the diaspora for centuries, in some cases millennia.
2% Eastern Europe
3% Arabia
95% Jewish Diaspora
There are many people that came from North Africa during the neolithic to Europe, not to forget Carthagineans, Libyan-Phoenicians and Roman settlers from the near east, etc. Hitler and Napoleon, for example, had NA lineage.
Yes, they are genetically very similar because they are neighboring nations, but culturally there is a distinct Portuguese and Spanish culture. So their cultures are different but fall still within the Mediterranean cultures of Southern Europe. In my family, there is a preference for Spain with my male siblings and for Portugal with my female siblings. My dad and mom prefer Spain too.
Now genetically, Spain and Portugal are sort of at the crossroads, thus yield a genetic resemblance to some neighboring regions.
Iberian (Spain + Portugal) population genomic make-up is the following:
74% (Southern Europe)
9% (Northern Africa)
5% (Jewish Diaspora)
5% (West & Central Europe)
4% (Asia Minor)
2% (Great Britain & Ireland)
Have you seen the genetic map of Neuling and any one from the Internet?
Portuguese are way more similar genetically to Greeks than to Spaniards. Up to 20-25% of Portuguese people have Jewish and Northern Africana genes. Spain? Barely 10% of those and way much more R1b western European haplogrup.
Iberia can have 14% of those haplogrups as Spain is much more populated than Portugal, but in Spain is about 9% while in Portugal surpasses 20%.
Main reason? History. The Spanish resettlement maded by the Catholic Kings which "imported" lots of southern Germans and southern Frenchmans while expelled most Moors. Portugal didn't except for Jews so that's why Portuguese people are more like Cristiano Ronaldo and Spaniards more like Iker Casillas.
Have you seen the genetic map of Neuling and any one from the Internet?
Portuguese are way more similar genetically to Greeks than to Spaniards. Up to 20-25% of Portuguese people have Jewish and Northern Africana genes. Spain? Barely 10% of those and way much more R1b western European haplogrup.
Iberia can have 14% of those haplogrups as Spain is much more populated than Portugal, but in Spain is about 9% while in Portugal surpasses 20%.
Main reason? History. The Spanish resettlement maded by the Catholic Kings which "imported" lots of southern Germans and southern Frenchmans while expelled most Moors. Portugal didn't except for Jews so that's why Portuguese people are more like Cristiano Ronaldo and Spaniards more like Iker Casillas.
Well, as a whole within the Iberian genome, about 5% of it showing to be of Jewish Diaspora in origin. However if you go by individual places or individual persons, it may go as high as you say it is. Nevertheless, I will be much more careful and stick with the norm which is 5%.
Well, as a whole within the Iberian genome, about 5% of it showing to be of Jewish Diaspora in origin. However if you go by individual places or individual persons, it may go as high as you say it is. Nevertheless, I will be much more careful and stick with the norm which is 5%.
What is your source for those 5%? Link please, which should be at least as scientific and thorough as the link I provided for the 20% figure a few posts back...
Not Jewish diaspora as they remained, as to their percentage, it varies according to regions and the presence of the Inquisition.
Many converts fled to northern Spain, were Inquisition could never do much.
In Portugal, the Inquisition was stricter than Spain as it was more economical, if they could accuse some Jewish converts of practicising their religion, the inquisition -nobility-etc, could confiscate their properties.
Quite difficult to separate Jewish from similar people that came to Hispania during the Roman Empire.
Absolutely! There were many Jews who settled or resided in Iberia, but at one time or another were forced to either emigrate to Western and Northern European nations, the Americas or convert to Christianity or even face death. So for those who converted to Christianity and blended in the average Iberian population, it has been hard to trace their lineages. Due to the fact that many Jews hid their ethnicity to avoid persecution. Nevertheless, We are now able to trace people of such lineage through the study of the genome.
Not true, most Sephardic Jews -as part of my family- remained or moved to northern Spain.
I'd say that 80 percent did, many times at the expense of denouncing their neighbours.
Not true, many descendants of Jews know they are descendants of Jews. There are entire cities and towns that are descendants of Jewish.
Some, very few, have returned to their faith or are members of "friends of Israel".
Franco himself was a descendant on his mother side, Bahamonde.
Last edited by Rozenn; 08-25-2017 at 09:58 AM..
Reason: English only please
As far as I know, anyone is Jewish who has ever had any Jewish ancestors on the maternal side, regardless whether they are Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or whatever.
That explains why a lot of Israelis look like Germans
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