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Have you seen the genetic map of Neuling and any one from the Internet?
Portuguese are way more similar genetically to Greeks than to Spaniards. Up to 20-25% of Portuguese people have Jewish and Northern Africana genes. Spain? Barely 10% of those and way much more R1b western European haplogrup.
Iberia can have 14% of those haplogrups as Spain is much more populated than Portugal, but in Spain is about 9% while in Portugal surpasses 20%.
Main reason? History. The Spanish resettlement maded by the Catholic Kings which "imported" lots of southern Germans and southern Frenchmans while expelled most Moors. Portugal didn't except for Jews so that's why Portuguese people are more like Cristiano Ronaldo and Spaniards more like Iker Casillas.
^ yes, really, learn something about history. It's well known that the Portuguese people are the darkest Europeans and they got the biggest Middle Eastern and North African admixture just after the Cypriots. If you can't manage the reality is not my fault. Just search in Google: European haplogrup map.
I don't know why many Portuguese people got a huge complex with their history and ancestors. You're still fully European...
Quote:
Originally Posted by farinello
Not Jewish diaspora as they remained, as to their percentage, it varies according to regions and the presence of the Inquisition.
Many converts fled to northern Spain, were Inquisition could never do much.
In Portugal, the Inquisition was stricter than Spain as it was more economical, if they could accuse some Jewish converts of practicising their religion, the inquisition -nobility-etc, could confiscate their properties.
Quite difficult to separate Jewish from similar people that came to Hispania during the Roman Empire.
You can't be more wrong. When the Portuguese inquisition started, the Jews fled from Spain from more than half and century ago. Open a history book, it's not that hard.
The Spanish Inquisition (1470s) started almost 1 century before the Portuguese one (1550s). And the Spaniards really made to fled the vast majority of the moors, the Portuguese not. As well as the "repoblación" maded by the Catholic Kings and mostly maded of southern Frenchmans and southern Germans in half of Spain, because the majority of the Spanish males died in the war while taking back the Christian territory from the hands of the Moors, which were much more in number but still the Christian Kingdoms managed to win.
Have you seen the genetic map of Neuling and any one from the Internet?
Portuguese are way more similar genetically to Greeks than to Spaniards. Up to 20-25% of Portuguese people have Jewish and Northern Africana genes. Spain? Barely 10% of those and way much more R1b western European haplogrup.
Iberia can have 14% of those haplogrups as Spain is much more populated than Portugal, but in Spain is about 9% while in Portugal surpasses 20%.
Main reason? History. The Spanish resettlement maded by the Catholic Kings which "imported" lots of southern Germans and southern Frenchmans while expelled most Moors. Portugal didn't except for Jews so that's why Portuguese people are more like Cristiano Ronaldo and Spaniards more like Iker Casillas.
Don't confuse the genetic stats I have given are based on deeper ancestry than mere R1b Y-Dna haplogroup frequency.
What is your source for those 5%? Link please, which should be at least as scientific and thorough as the link I provided for the 20% figure a few posts back...
My stats of 5% for the Jewish Diaspora in Iberia is quite scientific, not guessed by any means.
Not true, most Sephardic Jews -as part of my family- remained or moved to northern Spain.
I'd say that 80 percent did, many times at the expense of denouncing their neighbours.
Not true, many descendants of Jews know they are descendants of Jews. There are entire cities and towns that are descendants of Jewish.
Some, very few, have returned to their faith or are members of "friends of Israel".
Franco himself was a descendant on his mother side, Bahamonde.
ACAI (Associació Catalana d'Amics d'Israel)
Des de Xuetes per Israel volem anunciar als nostres lectors, amb molta alegria i il·lusió, la inauguració de la “Casa d’Estudi Bernat Pomar”, en el carrer Posada de Lluc 3, de Palma.
Els xuetes en particular i els mallorquins en general, tendran des d’ara una casa d’acollida, un camí institucional obert i acollidor on dirigir les seves inquietuds. Tota persona que accepti compartir els fins i objectius de l’entitat serà benvenguda i acceptada.
La nova institució pretén obrir una nova forma de participació entre els descendents dels jueus conversos, ajudar-los en les seves aspiracions (els que les tenguin) de recuperar els seus llaços amb el judaisme i amb el poble d’Israel.
En el nou centre celebrarem trobades, jornades intensives de conferències relacionades amb la recuperació de la nostra identitat (una vegada al mes), sopars els divendres al vespre, classes d’hebreu i tot tipus d’actes. Aviat disposarem també d’una biblioteca de temes jueus i xuetes on els afiliats podran accedir a aquests llibres.
Així mateix, s’organitzaran actes divulgatius i de formació per a donar a conèixer en Mallorca la cultura hebrea, sempre des del punt de vista actual, considerant als descendents dels conversos mallorquins com a Bnei Israel.
Volem tenir personalitat pròpia en un context en el qual hi ha diverses entitats dedicades al conreu de la cultura hebrea, però totes elles mirant al passat. Noltros volem transmetre una visió actual del fet xueta i la seva connexió amb el poble i l’Estat d’Israel. Noltros miram cap al futur!
Els interessats en participar en els sopars dels divendres al vespre, han de posar-se en contacte amb Miquel Segura (647348182) o amb Guillem Mayol, per tal de rebre més informació sobre els horaris i les activitats que es realitzaran.
Els xuetes que vulguin afiliar-se poden també concertar una primera entrevista en la qual exposin els seus objectius. Curiositat per les arrels? Informació històrica? Informació actual? Informació sobre el que passa a Israel? Inquietuds religioses?
Volem desitjar un gran èxit a aquest nou projecte des de Xuetes per Israel, per ser una iniciativa única i amb visió de futur!
Seguirem actualitzant les activitats que facin a través de Facebook i de la nostra web: xuetesxisrael.wordpress.com
Under the iron rule of Henry III of Castile and Leon (1390-1406) Jewish groups were extremely persecuted and pressured to convert to Christianity. Remember the pogroms of 1391 in Spain which were extremely brutal.
Also the edict issued by Ferdinand and Isabella on March 31st, 1492 giving the choice to Jews for baptism or exile, this in turn paved the way for more than 160,000 Spanish Jews to be expelled from Spain.
As far as I know, anyone is Jewish who has ever had any Jewish ancestors on the maternal side, regardless whether they are Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or whatever.
That explains why a lot of Israelis look like Germans
Well the German genomic picture shows the following:
42% ( Western & Central Europe)
16% ( Eastern Europe)
14% (Scandinavia)
11% ( Great Britain & Ireland)
6% ( Finland & Northern Siberia)
6% (Southern Europe)
5% ( Jewish Diaspora)
My friend I dont have any complex with my history and ancestors and I well known of my country history but what you are saying is completely wrong. " It's well known that the Portuguese people are the darkest Europeans and they got the biggest Middle Eastern and North African admixture just after the Cypriots" very very wrong. "Up to 20-25% of Portuguese people have Jewish and Northern Africana genes. Spain? Barely 10% of those and way much more R1b western European haplogrup" so wrong again.
The last Portuguese region to be conquer to the Moors was Algarve in 1249. Spain deported the last Moors only 3 centuries after that. In this case, can you explain why you still saying the percentage of norther African is bigger in Portugal that in Spain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klpton
^ yes, really, learn something about history. It's well known that the Portuguese people are the darkest Europeans and they got the biggest Middle Eastern and North African admixture just after the Cypriots. If you can't manage the reality is not my fault. Just search in Google: European haplogrup map.
I don't know why many Portuguese people got a huge complex with their history and ancestors. You're still fully European...
You can't be more wrong. When the Portuguese inquisition started, the Jews fled from Spain from more than half and century ago. Open a history book, it's not that hard.
The Spanish Inquisition (1470s) started almost 1 century before the Portuguese one (1550s). And the Spaniards really made to fled the vast majority of the moors, the Portuguese not. As well as the "repoblación" maded by the Catholic Kings and mostly maded of southern Frenchmans and southern Germans in half of Spain, because the majority of the Spanish males died in the war while taking back the Christian territory from the hands of the Moors, which were much more in number but still the Christian Kingdoms managed to win.
Well the German genomic picture shows the following:
42% ( Western & Central Europe)
16% ( Eastern Europe)
14% (Scandinavia)
11% ( Great Britain & Ireland)
6% ( Finland & Northern Siberia)
6% (Southern Europe)
5% ( Jewish Diaspora)
Um, I was not speaking of the German genome, but of the modern Israeli one. Many Israeli and also American Jews are genetically basically Germans, some also Russians etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperialistcorner
My stats of 5% for the Jewish Diaspora in Iberia is quite scientific, not guessed by any means.
Well, claiming that won't do, you have to provide reliable sources like I did.
Um, I was not speaking of the German genome, but of the modern Israeli one. Many Israeli and also American Jews are genetically basically Germans, some also Russians etc.
Well, claiming that won't do, you have to provide reliable sources like I did.
I am definitely not claiming anything, this is from a genome project much, much more reliable. Most American, German, Polish, Austrian, Czech, Russian Jews are Ashkenaz Jewish folks. Thus they blend both European and Jewish/Middle-Eastern components.
My friend I dont have any complex with my history and ancestors and I well known of my country history but what you are saying is completely wrong. " It's well known that the Portuguese people are the darkest Europeans and they got the biggest Middle Eastern and North African admixture just after the Cypriots" very very wrong. "Up to 20-25% of Portuguese people have Jewish and Northern Africana genes. Spain? Barely 10% of those and way much more R1b western European haplogrup" so wrong again.
The last Portuguese region to be conquer to the Moors was Algarve in 1249. Spain deported the last Moors only 3 centuries after that. In this case, can you explain why you still saying the percentage of norther African is bigger in Portugal that in Spain?
You haven't got any single idea about what you're talking about. Just a huge complex...
lol did you read my comment well? Did you seek for any European haplogrup map on Google? No, you didn't. And that 3 century thing was 2, and that was the Caliphate of Granada btw. By 1249 most of Spain was already Christian again. Yes, Spain was repopulated by the Catholic Kings, open a history book. It's not that hard! Portugal wasn't.
I can't post images or links because I tried before but they don't show up. It's because i'm new probably. Btw, the most famous and accurate haplogrup map shows this:
Portugal non European haplogrups:
E3b ~20% (Greek, Near Eastern, North African)
G 5% (Phoenician, Anatolian)
K 3-4% (Middle Eastern, North African)
J1 15% (Jewish, Arabic)
So finally about 40% of the Portuguese haplogrups are not European. Still, 15-18% of them are considered fully white.
In Spain the E3b is about 6-7%, G and K together about 5%, J1 about 5%. At most, Spain has 16% of those haplogrups vs 42-43% of Portugal ... in fact Spain has less of each of those than France or Switzerland, about 75% of Spain is only R1b, being the 2nd biggest country with the predominance of this haplogrup after Ireland and almost equal to Scotland, which has just 2-3% less R1b.
Still, Ireland, Scotland, France or Switzerland got much more Aryan, Slavic, Nordic, Germanic or Saxon haplogrups, specially Ireland and Scotland (obviously) so that's why the average Spaniard has a normal white skin (or Caucasian) but dark brown hair and brown eyes. Not a very light skin but neither a dark one, it's like in the middle of a typical Frenchman or an Italian.
The average Spaniard is pretty similar to the average French guy but with darker hair and a considerable less prevalence of light eyes, but considerably more than in Portugal, Greece or Cyprus. Just a bit more than Italy, as the north of Italy has lots of central European haplogrups with light eyes.
The average Portuguese guy got a slightly darker hair and mostly brown eyes but with a bit darker, more olive tanned type of skin. It's still considered white and purely southern European, just as Sicilians, the majority of Greeks or Cypriots. There are also many southern Spaniards and some Galicians with this type of skin as well as many southern Frenchmans, but they're not the average as in Portugal or Cyprus. Don't have a complex for this, we are all humans mate...
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