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South Texas did not feel Southern to me, very Mexican in feel. West Texas feels very Southwestern. South Florida is not Southern. Northern Virginia is not southern either.
However, the least Southern state as a whole has got to be Virginia, population-wise. Most of its population is in the northern section and is not southern.
Interesting in that I just got back from Alpine, Tx. And drove through a lot of the Texas panhandle and permian basin to get there. I think that the entire area is a mix of southern and southwestern culture with some high plains thrown in there as well in the upper part of the panhandle.
For instance, the architecture at TTU in Lubbock is very southwestern but some of the people in Lubbock are very southern, while others aren't. Obviously, terrain wise the trans-pecos area looks a lot like New Mexico but it still didn't seem overwhelmingly different in terms of the people than say eastern New Mexico.
That is an interesting observation, EG. And I am wondering if we might be slightly -- only slightly -- talking past each other a bit. Let me see if I can clarify.
I personally divide "West Texas". One (the majority of it) extends to the straight Texas/New Mexico border, and the said line would keep going south to the Rio Grande. THAT part of west Texas I consider the epitome of the "western South". Basically Southern culture (as it was settled overwhelmingly by folks from east Texas and the southeast) transported into an extremely western environment. And a small slice of eastern New Mexico along side it is known as "Little Texas" because of the penetration of the Texans into that area. Thus, Texas influenced the area, not the other way around. Here is a good map (among many) which sorta shows this (and is not a bad depiction of the boundaries of the South itself, IMHO):
On the other hand, I think of "trans-pecos" Texas (far west Texas) as the sliced off "horn" of the state that is really more akin to the true "interior Southwest" of New Mexico and Arizona in almost all facets.
Still, I have never been there, so undoubtably your experience is better than mine. I do know that the El Paso area went for secession in 1861 and that a Confederate monument is on the courthouse lawn, so certainly there were early Southern influences that may persist even today.
Oh well, just a few thoughts on the matter. Would be interested in hearing your replying thoughts again!
11 Confederates States...of which Maryland and WV are not.
That is not true. West Virginia was part of the Confederacy, at least according to one expert on the subject, Jefferson Davis. Just because the US Govt. considered western Virginia a Union state did not alter the position of western Virginia in the Confederacy. West Virginia's counties had delegates and Senators in Richmond throughout the war, West Virginians voted in Confederate elections in 1863, both soldiers and civilians (in areas out of Union control). West Virginians represented Virginia in the Confederate Congress-Allen T. Caperton, Alexander Boteler, Charles Wells Russell, AG Jenkins, Samuel A. Miller. The adjutant general of Virginia Jonathan M. Bennett of Lewis County has his portrait on Virginia's Confederate currency, and Virginia's Lt. Gov. from 63-65 was Samuel Price of Greenbrier.
West Virginia provided over 20 regiments of men to the Confederacy and Virginia, as well as cattle, horses, tons of salt, timber and coal. And Virginia provided West Virginia with----nothing. They left West Virginia twisting in the wind, did not protect loyal citizens or their homes or government. The Staunton Spectator, Jan. 14, 1862-
"As nearly all the troops who volunteered in Western Virginia have been taken from their homes, which are now daily threatened with invasion, and have been sent to other fields, North, East, West, and South, the people feel that they have been badly treated...They feel that it is wrong to take their arms from them, as has been done, and to take all of their own volunteers... If their own volunteers would be allowed to remain to defend their own section, their homes, altars and firesides...To leave these loyal people in such a helpless and defenceless condition would have the very worst possible effect."
West Virginians were sent to defend the Valley and eastern Virginia while their own homes were overrun by an unpopular Union government in Wheeling, which never came close to even 50% support by the residents. West Virginia truly became a separate state when Lee surrendered. And according to the terms of that surrender, all Confederate soldiers from the 11 Confederate states, plus West Virginia, were allowed to return home on their paroles. Soldiers from the northern or border states had to get special permits from the War Dept. Similarly, when the Southern Claims Commission was established, it was only meant to apply to the original 11 Confederate states, plus West Virginia.
Shoot, go to places like Emporia, Franklin, or South Hill all in Virginia and tell me VA is the least southern state. In the south, its more of a large urban vs. smaller urban to rural divide. To me NOVA, Richmond, and Hampton Roads are all pretty much extensions of the mid atlantic to me. NOVA sticks out the most, however, head west on US 58 heading into Suffolk into these towns just mentioned, you see cotton fields, tractors, you hear southern accents, towns that are literally segregated by the railroads tracks and the big pickup trucks with the stars and bars. To me, all the states are just as southern and country as one another. Granted, in VA accents may not be as thick as Alabama or Mississippi, but there's no denying that your in the dirty south. Emporia, VA could easily be mistaken as a town in Alabama or South GA. So, IMO, all the southern states in the south feel southern including Florida in its rural and even many of the metros, but its more of what areas of the south feel the least southern. Those areas are NOVA, Richmond, Hampton Roads, Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta*downtown on northward*, Tampa, Orlando, and Miami, and MAYBE (could be wrong) Nashville, Houston, and Dallas. And all of these areas except NOVA still all have southern traits. Thats it, everywhere else, down in the south to me is all the same. Of course you have the Appalachian culture and the coastal plain, Louisiana, and the low country of SC all have some type of variation but they're all unique to the south making it southern.
Of course, even as I was doing it I found that it needed improvement.
It came out looking like "Deep South" or "Gulf Coast States".
For one thing, certain places like New Orleans are sui generis--unique unto themselves.
I'd say N.O. isn't southern and isn't not southern!
And any map like this can't account for anomalies (generally urban) like Charlotte which isn't half as southern as it was a generation or two ago. Some N.C. natives maintain that the Raleigh suburb of 'Cary' is an acronym for "Concentrated Area of Relocated Yankees".
The shading for 'southern-ness' needs to extend further down into Florida. Etc etc.
Is Dallas southern? A lot of people there seem to think so.
Edit: I revised it. Is this any better? My vote is for Florida anyway, with Virginia 2nd.
Texas is its own country near as I can tell
Last edited by Archguy; 07-10-2013 at 01:58 AM..
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So I made a map
