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If this state needs a disaster analyst and isn't willing to pay a fair wage, then they are to blame.
Getting certified, by DRI, https://www.drii.org/
is a key to $70k a year as a beginner. After a few years, expect $100k or more especially if you become a manager of a large corporate disaster recovery or business continuity group.
I was especially impressed with HELCO's response to the hurricane. They nailed it.
Self-help New Age trite isn't a substitute for good pay and respect for working people and for technical skills. That stuff amounts to a warped semi-religious philosophy that intentionally ignores structural economic and cultural problems and values only the acolyte's individual success. It's inherently selfish and breeds willful ignorance of real problems. Very popular among realtors, pyramid schemers, and TV preachers, and other such intellectual midgets who view amassing wealth as "creating wealth" without any acknowledgement of impact on others. These are the people who whine about government not letting them "make extra money" with vacation rentals, or "run their business" paying workers $5/hr with no benefits, and so on.
Still can't rep you, so I'll reply and quote you. I agree with you, and additionally commend you for your eloquent writing.
I tried a high paying job in Houston and my contract was ended, leaving me with no job, no unemployment benefits, no employment prospects... I had to use the money I saved for taxes just to support myself, so now I owe the IRS. Had I stayed at my previous job at Maui County I'd be in the low 40s at this point, with no IRS debt, and a growing pension.
Often doing what is supposedly sensible ends up hurting you.
Life really is all about responding to, and overcoming, obstacles. There will always be obstacles in your way every time you try to move yourself forward. How you respond to those obstacles will largely determine how success you are in moving past them. When you find there are no more obstacles in your way, you've probably stopped trying.
In the end, complaining never helps anyone. It just ingrains a "poor me" attitude into your head and then you become your own biggest obstacle.
You will find little sympathy from most people when you advocate the belief you should be able to live whereever you want, and be paid whatever you determine is the appropriate amount for you. You decide to move to a remote island well documented for it's high cost for housing and it's lower than average wages. And then complain about the high cost of housing and low wages ? Really.
"self help" isn't all about being selfish either. You can improve yourself and overcome obstacles and still live your life any way you choose. And give back to your community and family in any way you choose.
Life really is all about responding to, and overcoming, obstacles. There will always be obstacles in your way every time you try to move yourself forward. How you respond to those obstacles will largely determine how success you are in moving past them. When you find there are no more obstacles in your way, you've probably stopped trying.
In the end, complaining never helps anyone. It just ingrains a "poor me" attitude into your head and then you become your own biggest obstacle.
You will find little sympathy from most people when you advocate the belief you should be able to live whereever you want, and be paid whatever you determine is the appropriate amount for you. You decide to move to a remote island well documented for it's high cost for housing and it's lower than average wages. And then complain about the high cost of housing and low wages ? Really.
"self help" isn't all about being selfish either. You can improve yourself and overcome obstacles and still live your life any way you choose. And give back to your community and family in any way you choose.
Did you see the article I posted a week or two ago about how employers say "That's not how we do things here" regarding higher pay? It's not some inevitable reality that professional jobs pay less in Hawaii, it's a cultural artifact. It can change if enough people complain and actually talk about it. Unionization isn't going to happen at this point in time so the only thing people can do is simply demand higher pay. As it is, most people seem to just resign themselves to low pay "because that's how it is". We have to stand up for ourselves and say "We are worth just as much as a carpenter or a roofer".
Unionization isn't going to happen at this point in time so the only thing people can do is simply demand higher pay. As it is, most people seem to just resign themselves to low pay "because that's how it is". We have to stand up for ourselves and say "We are worth just as much as a carpenter or a roofer".
Or, you can move.
Or, start your own business.
Or, not take the position.
Just "demanding" higher pay isn't going to lead to higher pay - the only real mechanism is for people to not take those positions in the first place - and if positions remain unfilled, then the employer can make a decision to raise the compensation or continue to not fill the position - or go out of business if they prefer.
If I had someone complain to me about pay - I'd have no problem telling them they should explore other options - and depending on the response I got it might be a career limiting move, I'm more interested in those who want the position. And if they continue to be problematic about it, we would part company.
Just "demanding" higher pay isn't going to lead to higher pay - the only real mechanism is for people to not take those positions in the first place - and if positions remain unfilled, then the employer can make a decision to raise the compensation or continue to not fill the position - or go out of business if they prefer.
If I had someone complain to me about pay - I'd have no problem telling them they should explore other options - and depending on the response I got it might be a career limiting move, I'm more interested in those who want the position. And if they continue to be problematic about it, we would part company.
So you're saying that negotiating for higher pay is an invalid action? Only refusing to take the job is legitimate?
You're stuck on 10th grade microeconomic principles. In the real world culture does matter, you can demand more than the bare minimum, and employer recognition of employee satisfaction is a factor.
Look at what certain industries pay. Big Oil pays quite a bit more for many jobs than it has to, and gives better benefits than it has to. They would get just as many roughnecks if they paid half as much. They'd have no problem filling their professional positions at 20% lower pay and without generous sick and vacation time. But that's not the culture. Individual bad eggs notwithstanding, there's a certain amount of generosity built in to the culture.
There's a similar thing here with construction and the trades. You think employers have to pay $35/hr to get good carpenters? No, there are unemployed carpenters who will work for $20. There are even guys who will work for $10. You do see some job postings offering only $20, but the entire field isn't brought down to that bare minimum. There is a general sense that about $30/hr is fair and that seems to be the biggest factor
Another thing is ignorance of what tech jobs actually pay. I went to a tech meet up where everyone worked at the tech park and there were some people on boards and things like that. They have no idea how low the pay is for most tech jobs-- They just assume everybody makes as much as the few software engineers they know. One guy who is very involved with high tech here was genuinely surprised when I told him there's a big pay gap between Hawaii and the mainland.
How did this come up? They were talking about how hard it is to get local kids to realize they can have careers in tech and not just work at resorts. No mention of salary, they were thinking solely in terms of awareness and education, as if good pay is a given. That's what the dialog is centered around, listen to Bytemarks and programs like that and you'll see what I mean. It's all about "How do we get kids involved in STEM?"
I said "If you want to attract people you can't just ignore salary. You have to pay people well. Enough that they can actually afford to live decently and buy a house and support a family"
Last edited by winkosmosis; 09-05-2014 at 03:58 PM..
Wink - what you don't realize is "Big Oil" and "Construction" and "Trades" (your examples) - are valued higher the the STEM jobs you list. It is what it is.
I would argue to replace a "Big Oil" or "Construction" or "Trades" highly skilled person to be much harder to replace than let us use for example a software developer.
If I had a software developer come to me - after he/she accepted a job that lets say pays, $50,000 - and demands $70,000, I would remind he/she they accepted the job at $50,000 - and that is what it pays. If the conversation gets confrontational, we part company. I'll just go out and get a contractor the next day.
And by the way, just because you have a STEM, you aren't entitled to a house or high pay. You are entitled to market pay. You have options to move and find somewhere else you may feel better valued.
Agree that STEM doesn't necessarily pay the big bucks. I work with a lot of academics and researchers - some of the most highly educated folks around - and they don't make the big bucks (quite the opposite, actually!)
I interviewed for a great position in a fab team recently and the hiring manager shared their rationale for the salary range. Combination of industry market rate (since HI is a small market, they include west coast rates, also) and what other people who hold that position (currently, or in recent past) are/were paid.
Sadly, the entry point was significantly lower than what I'm making now so I wouldn't have been in a position to accept and they weren't in the position to offer beyond that range. (The gap was too high to even attempt negotiation.) Happily, I have a job but, it does make me afraid of a time that I may have to take HI market rate. I won't waste too much energy on forgone opportunities, though. I need all the energy focused on maximizing my current one. Onwards, you know?
But, yes to being transparent about what you think you're worth and also to being realistic as to what the market can handle. I'm a big fan of advertised salary ranges and freely give my current salary range, too. Sometimes, it's just not a good fit.
This article from Pacific Business News, about the well known phenomenon of the gap between Mainland and Hawai'i pay rates, is several years old, but it still seems pretty accurate on key issues, including the "brain drain" back to the mainland; the widely accepted concept of the "paradise tax," which is the idea that you don't have to pay people as much in a location that is exceptionally attractive; and the documented fact that corporations actively embraced the traditional lower pay scales in Hawai'i in order to hold down costs.
In addition are some interesting statistics, about how the pay gap is greatest in computer science, mathematics and law, while construction trades may actually pay more than the mainland. Bottom line, employers pay what they have to to get the workers they need.
This article from Pacific Business News, about the well known phenomenon of the gap between Mainland and Hawai'i pay rates, is several years old, but it still seems pretty accurate on key issues, including the "brain drain" back to the mainland; the widely accepted concept of the "paradise tax," which is the idea that you don't have to pay people as much in a location that is exceptionally attractive; and the documented fact that corporations actively embraced the traditional lower pay scales in Hawai'i in order to hold down costs.
In addition are some interesting statistics, about how the pay gap is greatest in computer science, mathematics and law, while construction trades may actually pay more than the mainland. Bottom line, employers pay what they have to to get the workers they need.
I wonder why the paradise tax doesn't apply to the trades
There is no reason I can think of. I really think it's cultural. The article refers to unions but I don't know anybody in the trades who is in a union.
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