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Translated "I have no logical argument therefore I am going to give up and use personal attacks instead."
I have linked source after source showing cases of male doctors (specifically gynecologists) abusing women. I have shown that women are probably at least 100 times more likely to be abused by a male gynecologist than a female one. I have shown that the arguments presented on the other side aren't logically consistent.
All the other side has to offer is feelings. Nothing of substance. No statistics, no scientific sources and no well reasoned logical arguments.
All I want is an intelligent debate. Challenge my point with facts and reasoning. If you can't do that at least open your eyes and challenge your own dogmatic beliefs.
"100 times greater" sounds dramatic but I didn't see your math on this. If the base is 1 out of 10,000 doctors then 100 times that is still 1%. I suppose I could always leave if he came in without a nurse - the odds that's he's in cahoots with the nurses in his office must be infinitesimal...so yeah...I'll take my chances. Who knows, if he's good I might get as excited as him!
"100 times greater" sounds dramatic but I didn't see your math on this. If the base is 1 out of 10,000 doctors then 100 times that is still 1%. I suppose I could always leave if he came in without a nurse - the odds that's he's in cahoots with the nurses in his office must be infinitesimal...so yeah...I'll take my chances. Who knows, if he's good I might get as excited as him!
I have linked to between 50 to 100 cases of sexual assault and abuse from male doctors, I have yet to find a case with a female doctor. That is where that number comes from. Find me cases of female doctors sexually abusing or assaulting female patients and I will adjust the number. The number was a gross estimate.
By and by I would pick a female for any female issues....no male can ever know how we "feel" and what we go thru...and genuine most MDs were guys however a female MD conveyed me in 1938 at home. So they were around, not the same number of as guys without a doubt. Upbeat to see increasingly ladies in every aspect of society. I would not feel uncomfortable with a male MD for female stuff yet they simply don't have the foggiest idea about our emotions.
Educate your sister until regarding 20 or 25 years back all specialists were guys and they saw us in all circumstances. I wouldn't waver. Then again I do comprehend: Hubby battled seeing a female specialist for quite a long time. Presently he is over that and thinks more about their insight, how he identifies with them and how minding his specialist is: he gives careful consideration to their sex.
Just to be clear, you are saying that women medical staff understand women issues better (which makes abundant sense to me) and that women medical staff also understand men's issues better (which if that is what you are saying I'm not understanding at all)?
Here is a list of male gynecologists charged with or accused of sexual assault or abuse. This is not a personal attack. Link me to one case of a female gynecologist that sexually assaulted or abused a patient. Find Misconduct Cases By OB/GYN Physicians
"100 times greater" sounds dramatic but I didn't see your math on this. If the base is 1 out of 10,000 doctors then 100 times that is still 1%. I suppose I could always leave if he came in without a nurse - the odds that's he's in cahoots with the nurses in his office must be infinitesimal...so yeah...I'll take my chances. Who knows, if he's good I might get as excited as him!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy
I have linked to between 50 to 100 cases of sexual assault and abuse from male doctors, I have yet to find a case with a female doctor. That is where that number comes from. Find me cases of female doctors sexually abusing or assaulting female patients and I will adjust the number. The number was a gross estimate.
That's the point! I don't NEED you to adjust the number downward! I'm perfectly willing to take that risk! Sorry I'm not scared of the the "big bad wolf" that ALL men seem to be, according to your reckoning. There are a lot of "risks" out there that you can acknowledge but practically speaking are not worth worrying about. I have many more pressing concerns.
Oh, online review of doctors further lowers the risk.
That's the point! I don't NEED you to adjust the number downward! I'm perfectly willing to take that risk! Sorry I'm not scared of the the "big bad wolf" that ALL men seem to be, according to your reckoning. There are a lot of "risks" out there that you can acknowledge but practically speaking are not worth worrying about. I have many more pressing concerns.
Oh, online review of doctors further lowers the risk.
So you admit there is a substantial risk. So again, you have no argument. You just feel it's okay. If you have so many more pressing concerns, then why do you have the time and desire to come into a thread on the subject and post your feelings multiple times. It would take far less time to find a female obgyn than you have spent in this thread and it would actually do something positive. You make no sense. You can't have it both ways.
The issue of male gynecologists isn't an important enough issue for you to simply find a female doctor even though your chance of being sexually assaulted would go down at least 100 fold. However, it is an important enough issue to come on here and attack people for not agreeing with you and important enough to tell everyone your feelings which lack facts, statistics and reason.
Iaskwhy, there is something like 125 million adult females in the US, most of whom will see a GYN multiple times in their life. I don't see anyone here saying that sexual improprieties on the part of male GYNs haven't happened but the chances are extremely small that any woman will ever be the victim. It is not a substantial risk as you say. Substantial would be millions of victims.
The issue is not substantial risk but rather patient preference and comfort. Women who want women physicians for women things makes abundant sense to me. I absolutely understand and support such choices. At the same time I see nothing wrong with women going to male GYNs if that is their choice. My shy daughter who as a teenager only wanted to see female doctors and nurses chose a male OB-GYN when pregnant with her own kids, and she was extremely happy with him. He had come highly recommended by female friends. My daughter says he was very attentive and gave her excellent care.
My wife recently had surgery of a personal nature. The physician was a male and while an inpatient in the hospital several of the nurses attending her were male. She said the males were actually more attentive to her and gentle with her than the female nurses. My guess is that they know many women don't want male nurses for intimate matters and that they were just trying harder to prove themselves is all. That she is OK with male doctors and nurses only means that she is OK. Another woman won't be and that's OK too. Women get to make their own choices. It is not for you or me or any other guy to decide for them.
I on the other hand will only go to male doctors because it is uncomfortable enough facing a sea of female nurses and techs for intimate matters without also having a female doctor for such things. Other men don't care whether their doctor is a female or not and that's OK too.
Iaskwhy, there is something like 125 million adult females in the US, most of whom will see a GYN multiple times in their life. I don't see anyone here saying that sexual improprieties on the part of male GYNs haven't happened but the chances are extremely small that any woman will ever be the victim. It is not a substantial risk as you say. Substantial would be millions of victims.
The issue is not substantial risk but rather patient preference and comfort. Women who want women physicians for women things makes abundant sense to me. I absolutely understand and support such choices. At the same time I see nothing wrong with women going to male GYNs if that is their choice. My shy daughter who as a teenager only wanted to see female doctors and nurses chose a male OB-GYN when pregnant with her own kids, and she was extremely happy with him. He had come highly recommended by female friends. My daughter says he was very attentive and gave her excellent care.
My wife recently had surgery of a personal nature. The physician was a male and while an inpatient in the hospital several of the nurses attending her were male. She said the males were actually more attentive to her and gentle with her than the female nurses. My guess is that they know many women don't want male nurses for intimate matters and that they were just trying harder to prove themselves is all. That she is OK with male doctors and nurses only means that she is OK. Another woman won't be and that's OK too. Women get to make their own choices. It is not for you or me or any other guy to decide for them.
I on the other hand will only go to male doctors because it is uncomfortable enough facing a sea of female nurses and techs for intimate matters without also having a female doctor for such things. Other men don't care whether their doctor is a female or not and that's OK too.
The risk is substantial compared to being sexually abused by a female gynecologist. However, I agree with the rest of what you said.
The risk is substantial compared to being sexually abused by a female gynecologist. However, I agree with the rest of what you said.
You fail to understand the difference between absolute risk and relative risk.
The absolute risk that any woman will be abused by a male gynecologist is tiny. If that risk is relatively 100 times greater compared to the risk of being abused by a female gynecologist, it is still tiny.
For example, say the risk of being abused by a female is 1 in 1,000,000 exams and by a male is 100 in 1,000,000. That 100 in 1,000,000 [absolute risk] is still a tiny risk, though it is 100 times greater [relative risk].
For what it is worth, most males who go into OB/GYN do so because they enjoy taking care of women. One male OB/GYN in my community, who founded the first women's clinic here, started as an old fashioned GP many years ago. He told folks he switched to OB/GYN because he could not stand taking care of men.
Despite your inability to believe it, doctors early on learn to see body parts as just that. Body parts. That is why they are advised not to treat their own family members, because it is very difficult to maintain the needed objectivity when the body part is attached to someone you know and love.
No, every male doctor is not lusting after every attractive female he sees in his exam room.
You fail to understand the difference between absolute risk and relative risk.
The absolute risk that any woman will be abused by a male gynecologist is tiny. If that risk is relatively 100 times greater compared to the risk of being abused by a female gynecologist, it is still tiny.
For example, say the risk of being abused by a female is 1 in 1,000,000 exams and by a male is 100 in 1,000,000. That 100 in 1,000,000 [absolute risk] is still a tiny risk, though it is 100 times greater [relative risk].
For what it is worth, most males who go into OB/GYN do so because they enjoy taking care of women. One male OB/GYN in my community, who founded the first women's clinic here, started as an old fashioned GP many years ago. He told folks he switched to OB/GYN because he could not stand taking care of men.
Despite your inability to believe it, doctors early on learn to see body parts as just that. Body parts. That is why they are advised not to treat their own family members, because it is very difficult to maintain the needed objectivity when the body part is attached to someone you know and love.
No, every male doctor is not lusting after every attractive female he sees in his exam room.
I am a physicist, I am well aware of absolute and relative values, but thanks for the lecture. It completely depends on what you feel is abuse.
Shouldn't male doctors not work on attractive women then? After all, wouldn't it be hard to remain objective when you want to have sex with your patient?
There are about 38000 gynecologists in the US. About 52% of practicing gynecologists are female. That leaves 18,200 male gynecologists. I have posted links to at least 50 male gynecologists that were mostly serial abusers. I would estimate that the actual number of abusers is at least 10 times higher than this number given how rare it probably is for abuse to be reported. At least 500 abusers out of 18,200 male gynecologists. That means that 2.75% of male gynecologists have abused someone according to my estimate. I don't see that as a incredibly low risk of going to an abuser. Even if only 200 male gynecologists are abusers that still means that more than 1% are.
It's laughable that you somehow think that this doctor did something noble because "he couldn't stand taking care of men". That's a terribly sick thing for a doctor to say.
Last edited by Iaskwhy; 09-13-2016 at 11:42 PM..
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