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Old 11-09-2014, 08:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NABILBB View Post
Oh, and the claim you made is nuns don't wear like that because god ordered them to do so
Making up **** again I see.
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Old 11-09-2014, 08:58 PM
 
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I apologize for making up **** (don't know what means) again, that was not my intent, so if you don't have any objection on post 3 , then we don't have a problem
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Old 11-09-2014, 09:03 PM
 
Location: southern california
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Buqa is ancient in the desert regions predating even Christianity.

About the only Muslim areas you will find Religious Police are parts of Saudi, Iran and the ACEH region of Indonesia.

I believe you will find the predominate attitude among Muslims is that it is desired people be covered, but no human has the right to force them. One must do so of their own free will and with the desire of obeying Allaah(swt)
U r right just bek they beat them with night sticks doesn't mean they are forcing them to do anything
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Old 11-09-2014, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
U r right just bek they beat them with night sticks doesn't mean they are forcing them to do anything
Yes that is done by some Muslim men. That does not mean most of us accept it as right or in accordance with the Qur'an.

Perhaps you can understand that this is a sarcastic way of saying we are not permitted to beat women

Quote:
The Quran, chapter 4 (An-Nisa), verse 34:
“ Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.— translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

In the Qur'an, verse 34 of Surah an-Nisa (abbreviated as 4:34) concerns the issue of marital relations in Islam. This verse is interpreted by some Muslims as giving women a degree of autonomy over their own income and property but obliging them to comply with the husband's wishes should they be congruent with Islamic principles and beneficial to the marriage. The verse is also interpreted to mean that men are also obliged to be responsible for maintenance of their female relatives.[1] There is a unanimous agreement amongst Islamic scholars that this verse is not meant to harm or humiliate wives.[2][3][4][5] Some Muslims, such as Islamic feminist groups, argue that Muslim men use the text as an excuse for domestic violence.[6] However, some have translated "beat" as "separate", as Arabic in its nature is a multi-meaning language, and as such no word has a fixed sole meaning.[7]

Ibn Abbas, a companion of Muhammad, wrote the earliest commentary on the Quran, and to this part he himself said this is only a light tap.[8] When asked about the light hitting, he said it refers to using a siwak (toothbrush).[2]

Yusuf Estes, an Islamic preacher, has said this verse does not give a man the permission to literally "beat" his wife, rather only a light tap for a wife being "lewd"[9]

There have been several fatwas against domestic violence.[10][11]

There are sources that say that Muhammad himself never hit a woman and forbade it.[12] Furthermore, Muhammad commented on this verse, where he said “a light tap that leaves no mark.”
SOURCE

The sarcasm in this is because it was not a direct prohibition. It was a shaming of men that beat women. During the time of the revelation of this Surah wife beating was rampant in Arabia. A direct prohibition would have been easy to ignore. But, here you had the comment that essentially means. "You are not prohibited from beating your wife, but you are not to hurt her, inflict any pain or leave any marks." Things that are impossible to not do if you beat someone.

Just my opinion Astagfirullah, based upon what I have read in the teachings of various scholars.
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Old 11-09-2014, 10:46 PM
 
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Woodrow.

The problem here is not that you really are allowed to beat your women. I can post many verses that give you permission.

The problem is that you are denying it, and posting singular misleading verses, ignoring the many verses that plainly say it's OK, thinking nobody else reads the writings.

and yes, muhammed did hit Ashia in the chest.

This is a huge problem with the sale of islam in the west.

The verses are there, anyone can read them, to pretend they are not is Taquyyia, and a complete loss of credibility.

To deny they are there is a blatant lie.
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Old 11-09-2014, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Woodrow.

The problem here is not that you really are allowed to beat your women. I can post many verses that give you permission.

The problem is that you are denying it, and posting singular misleading verses, ignoring the many verses that plainly say it's OK, thinking nobody else reads the writings.

and yes, muhammed did hit Ashia in the chest.

This is a huge problem with the sale of islam in the west.

The verses are there, anyone can read them, to pretend they are not is Taquyyia, and a complete loss of credibility.

To deny they are there is a blatant lie.
Point to one ayyat in the Qur'an that says it is permissible to beat a woman (besides the one I mentioned)

Regarding the hadith about striking Aisha in the chest read THIS

The word used is Lahada
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Old 11-10-2014, 03:57 AM
 
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Tabari IX:113
"Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

"A Woman may be likened to a sheep—even a cow or a camel—for all are ridden.” (Tafsir al-Qurtubi vol.15, p.172)
Sunan Dawud book 11, 2141 [after first forbidding wife beating, Muhammad changes his mind] "...Do not beat Allah's handmaidens, but when Umar came to the Apostle of Allah and said 'Women have become emboldened towards their husbands', the Prophet gave permission to beat them.

" Dawud 2142 "Narrated Umar ibn al-KhattabThe Prophet said, “A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

"Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: When a man invites his wife to his bed and she does not come, and he (the husband) spends the night being angry with her, the angels curse her until morning." (Sahih Muslim Vol. 2, p. 723)
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Old 11-10-2014, 04:01 AM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,084,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Point to one ayyat in the Qur'an that says it is permissible to beat a woman (besides the one I mentioned)

Regarding the hadith about striking Aisha in the chest read THIS

The word used is Lahada
Sorry, this falls in line with the countless other verses that some apologist claims means something other than what was written.

They abound, like the people who say ashia was 16

Or the ones who say rasins and pearls are the virgins.

The internet is flooded with these.

That's some pretty weak sauce
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Old 11-10-2014, 04:09 AM
 
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It's simply amazing how all of these muslims, except you, just misunderstand Islam...
And they all seem to misunderstand it in the same direction.


Islam - Wife Beating Etiquette - YouTube
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Old 11-10-2014, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
It's simply amazing how all of these muslims, except you, just misunderstand Islam...
And they all seem to misunderstand it in the same direction.


Islam - Wife Beating Etiquette - YouTube
Re-watch very carefully. it is the same sarcasm as in 4:34.

The Sheik replied that beatings are permitted but only in one situation and the conditions to be met are impossible. Notice carefully some of the conditions, the man can not be angry, he can not inflict pain, he can not leave a mark, tc etc

This is all very similar to the Judge's ruling in Shakespeare's "Merchant of Venice" Shylock was given permission to extract the "Pound of Flesh" but was forbidden to extract any blood when doing so.
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