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My kids are grown, and I have worked hard my whole life. i didn't come from money, and now that I'm older I want a peaceful place to retire with my wife.
My children were never in gangs, nor have they seen the inside of a police car. We are not "carpet baggers" as another person pre judged me as. My daughter is in college, and my son is a patriot, serving in Iraq.
My hands are calloused, and I'm grayer, and nothing has come easy for my wife and I, so there is no "easy" attitude here as you labeled me.
I have fought for this great country of ours, and watched as many of my platoon stepped on land mines, were killed by enemy mortars.
I fought for a country, not a state, and think I've earned the right to move wherever I damn well please in America.
To stereotype all Californians as easy living gangsters as some of you have is bigoted and unfair sir.
I want a quiet place to Assimilate into the land, ride my horse free, and live out my years with my wife in peace just like you do.
We are good, God fearing people who never did like the hustle of LA, but needed to be there to provide for our children. It's time to retire for us and if you inflate the price for a house or ranch that I've worked my whole damn life for, because I'm from California, than that sir is just greedy and is on the seller, not me.
My kids are grown, and I have worked hard my whole life. i didn't come from money, and now that I'm older I want a peaceful place to retire with my wife.
My children were never in gangs, nor have they seen the inside of a police car. We are not "carpet baggers" as another person pre judged me as. My daughter is in college, and my son is a patriot, serving in Iraq.
My hands are calloused, and I'm grayer, and nothing has come easy for my wife and I, so there is no "easy" attitude here as you labeled me.
I have fought for this great country of ours, and watched as many of my platoon stepped on land mines, were killed by enemy mortars.
I fought for a country, not a state, and think I've earned the right to move wherever I damn well please in America.
To stereotype all Californians as easy living gangsters as some of you have is bigoted and unfair sir.
I want a quiet place to Assimilate into the land, ride my horse free, and live out my years with my wife in peace just like you do.
We are good, God fearing people who never did like the hustle of LA, but needed to be there to provide for our children. It's time to retire for us and if you inflate the price for a house or ranch that I've worked my whole damn life for, because I'm from California, than that sir is just greedy and is on the seller, not me.
eatdrums,
Nobody is judging you, but there really are a lot of problems in Montana being caused by the California "attitude" and if you move this way, you will have to face that. In my post I did say there were exceptions to the rule and didn't judge you.
I'm a combat vet too, and have similar goals as you in retirement, however I've lived here for a long time, and have seen the prices go up faster than the wages, and to be honest I didn't want to see the migration to Montana coming (or maybe tried to hope it away) It's really aggravating to see prices go up, when 10-20 years ago you had it made on a wage that in CA would be poverty. Sorry to say it, but yes, in my area I'd say at least 65-70% of the people moving in are from CA. There are new problems in the schools because of attitudes brought in by kids from other places, and yes mainly CA.
You would probably feel the same way if we were wearing each others shoes.
To address Fivehorses post, some of our family friends have operated a small family farm for over 50 years and are about to be taxed and annexed out of the place because of what grew around them. Farmers don't have the option of raising prices to offset costs inflicted on them, grain prices are set by the feds and they get what they get, even though their cost have gone up dramatically.
I'm not going to pretend I know much about the ag business, because I'm not a farmer or rancher, and the closest I've come is to raise some chickens, a small garden and a couple of calves to save money.
If they are forced to sell, why shouldn't they shoot for as much as they can get? They don't want to sell in the first place and are being bullied by inflation and govt. The sad part is their daughter WANTS to take it over when she finishes college and is getting forced out of that chance. Shes not seeking bright lights and glamour, she loves her home and wants to stay. What would you do?
and CosmicWizard, cmon now... What you are really saying is just the hippy way of saying let the place get taken over and get over it.. Not going to happen.. When there is a problem that needs to be addresses, who's to say who can make a difference?
I'm not this guy that's sitting around all day pissed off and angry, there are things happening that concern me and I post about them sometimes..
Being from Los Angeles, I completely agree with Colo-Omar.
Los Angeles was invaded by everybody who was tired of the cold weather. Everyone expected us to bend over backwards for them. Mostly East coast folks, and very nice, just looking for a new start, so they poured in, and we accepted them, because after all this is America!
Los Angeles population has almost tripled since the 60s and 70s when I was growing up here.
We'd go to our Disneyland, and put up with the crows of tourist's from every state in the union, and understood that not every state has something as grand as Disneyland, so we put up with lines we hadn't experienced before.
Folks from Washington and Oregon got tired of the rain, Arizonians hated the heat, and folks from back east came by the thousands because they were tired of shoveling snow moved here, and we didn't bat an eye. Who wouldn't want to live close to Malibu beach, or Mammoth lakes?
Now we have the additional problem of our friends across the border literally taking over, and so it's our turn to say, heck with this, and wanting to get out.
We can no longer drive to the beaches, Mountain resorts, of Downtown attractions we loved. Taking my family to the beach, (25 miles away) is now a 3 hour drive.
We come to a state like Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and are treated like Martians. I like other Californians had my car windows broken with notes, "Go Home!" spray painted on my car because of my California plates.
Well, we need to move. If your taxes have gone up, consider that our sales tax in LA is 9.75%. Oue DMV fees have just doubled, (425.00 to register my 06 Pt Cruiser for one year), property taxes are simply un managable, and a 2 bedroom 1 bath home here cost's $400,000.00
Can you really blame us for wanting out? We just want to move to a place where our children can go to a good school, feel safe walking home, and driving to a movie house won't take 45 minutes in traffic. We'd also like to go fishing in a lake where the fish doesn't taste like diesel fuel, and visit a park with dirty diapers strewn about. Sounds like the beauty of Montana, Wyoming, and possibly Colorado.
Most of us want to come there an be good neighbors. I want our family to come and enjoy the small town feel again, not make it another LA. We're trying to escape that!
I was ostrisized in Oregon and Colorado.
I really hope to get better treatment in Montana.
I want to buy a horse ranch to put my 3 horses on, wave hello to a neighbor, and unlike LA be waved back to, and say good morning over coffee to a stranger like we did here in the 70's,
Your state is absolutely beautiful, and I want our kids to have a beautiful place to grow up in and have a place they can be proud to live in again, cause LA now sucks!
Have you checked out Idaho? Great area and friendly people here. Just stay away from the Boise area if you can!!
....What you are really saying is just the hippy way of saying let the place get taken over and get over it.. Not going to happen.. When there is a problem that needs to be addresses, who's to say who can make a difference?
The hippie way...are you really in touch with the real world? I'm a hippie because I'm from California?
You really are a very interesting sort of fellow.
The sad part is their daughter WANTS to take it over when she finishes college and is getting forced out of that chance. Shes not seeking bright lights and glamour, she loves her home and wants to stay. What would you do?
Thank you TW. I realise this is a rhetorical question but I answered it mentally while I was reading... and I answered: "Good grief, I honestly do not know." It must be heartbreaking for the family.
May I go back to the tax issue for a moment? (I'm trying to sort out the fact from fiction really.) Let's just remain with property taxes as this is what TW's post refers to. My question is why have the taxes on agricultural properties risen so drastically?
In some ways, it's counter-intuitive, i.e. if there are more people (regardless from whence they come) paying tax, there is more money going into state coffers, so there should be no need to raise taxes because the state is receiving more revenue. So have taxes been raised as a result of the newer residents bringing a "tax and spend" attitude with them and voting in candidates who do so? Is it because there is now more demand for - for example - social services so that state had to raise taxes to cope? Has the state bowed to developers pushing for ever more expansion? Or am I missing some critical issue entirely?
What strikes me throughout all this is the fact that there does not seem to be a state-wide policy (via either tax breaks, agriculture property exemptions or what-have-you) that would, at a minimum, help small ranchers keep their land and their way of life so they are not taxed out of existence - and with Montana's history, I suppose that strikes me as odd. We live in a ranching state with a very high property tax rate - however, there is a system (and quite a generous one) for keeping agricultural land taxed at a nominal rate.
If they are forced to sell, why shouldn't they shoot for as much as they can get?
I agree. I just sold my home 3 years ago, and I worked hard to get every last penny out of the deal. The differnec is, I'm not blaming the people moving in for the rising home prices. I realize that my greed to get top dollar ( which is simply human nature ) is PART of the probelm too.
They don't want to sell in the first place and are being bullied by inflation and govt.
Uhnfortunately that is happening all across the USA. It is not limited to Montana. If it is mainly the local government in your case, then the locals have mostly themselves to blame for electing politicians who sold out to the developers and other special interest instead of legislating to serve the will of the people.
The sad part is their daughter WANTS to take it over when she finishes college and is getting forced out of that chance.Shes not seeking bright lights and glamour, she loves her home and wants to stay. What would you do?
Again, this is unfortunately happening all across the USA. This is not a Montana specific issue. I won't even pretend to have an answer for you.
and CosmicWizard, cmon now... What you are really saying is just the hippy way of saying let the place get taken over and get over it..
No that is NOT at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that resentment is an emotion that dis-embowers you. It saps your energy. It steals your happy moments. Is it worth sacrificing even a few moments of happiness in this short life, allowing yourself to get all riled up over something you have no control over? The Califrornians and others will keep coming wether you resent them or not, so why make yourself sick over it. I'm not suggesting sitting on your butt and doing nothing, but rather to accept this fact and look for ways ( that YOU have control of ) to make the changes easier on you.
BTW...I am an Air Force vet from the Viet Nam era, with my hippie days long behind me.
....What you are really saying is just the hippy way of saying let the place get taken over and get over it.. Not going to happen.. When there is a problem that needs to be addresses, who's to say who can make a difference?
The hippie way...are you really in touch with the real world? I'm a hippie because I'm from California?
You really are a very interesting sort of fellow.
It's spelled hippie by the way.
That wasn't directed to you... I'm not that judgemental.. sheesh
I even have some good friends from CA that moved here..
but I am guilty of getting the cringe when I see another CA plate out here. It's like an endless flow of people, and now we have super wal-mart and all the other big box stores, WAY too much traffic for the roads, of course EVERYone seems to need a dog without a leash, more crime, condominiums everywhere, crowded hunting access, (still not as bad as other places, but you should have seen it 15-20 years ago.) chain resturaunts, prices that have gotten out of hand etc... I know to other people it seems better than where they were, but to some of us it's sad to see all the change.
Anyhow, I'd probably feel like you do if I was out there, and you might feel the same way I do if you were out here.. Good luck finding a good place for your family and horses.
If they are forced to sell, why shouldn't they shoot for as much as they can get?
I agree. I just sold my home 3 years ago, and I worked hard to get every last penny out of the deal. The differnec is, I'm not blaming the people moving in for the rising home prices. I realize that my greed to get top dollar ( which is simply human nature ) is PART of the probelm too.
That is true. I've got a very limited understanding about economics, so I won't pretend to have a good solution, I still live in the first house I've ever owned, and feel really lucky to have such a low mortgage payment compared to what the prices are like now... I don't know how people make it. It would scare me to death to owe the bank as much as they are asking for some of the homes around here. What's really scary is our family is starting to outgrow our place now and I'm terrified of owing more money, having larger payments etc..
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard
Uhnfortunately that is happening all across the USA. It is not limited to Montana. If it is mainly the local government in your case, then the locals have mostly themselves to blame for electing politicians who sold out to the developers and other special interest instead of legislating to serve the will of the people.
Good point, it's hard to pick good politicians unless you know them personally. I think sometimes they see things differently when they are in office and the $$ is dangled in front of their faces by the big developers and whoever else. Some of them seem to really want to be different, but then end up falling to the temptation of the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard
Again, this is unfortunately happening all across the USA. This is not a Montana specific issue. I won't even pretend to have an answer for you.
Our friends have tried to find different ways to use the land they have, but it seems like every move they try to make either gets cut off or costs a fortune in fees and surveys to even get permission to do. I hope they get some good advice and get it worked out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard
No that is NOT at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that resentment is an emotion that dis-embowers you. It saps your energy. It steals your happy moments. Is it worth sacrificing even a few moments of happiness in this short life, allowing yourself to get all riled up over something you have no control over? The Califrornians and others will keep coming wether you resent them or not, so why make yourself sick over it. I'm not suggesting sitting on your butt and doing nothing, but rather to accept this fact and look for ways ( that YOU have control of ) to make the changes easier on you.
BTW...I am an Air Force vet from the Viet Nam era, with my hippie days long behind me.
Thanks for that. I guess I can get carried away sometimes, sorry if I offended anyone. And you are absolutely right. I spent a couple years a little over a decade ago working in a big city on a contract job to try to make some dough to try to come back home with a nest egg and almost went crazy. When the next project came up, I figured I'd rather have less money and be able to go fish after work and have hunting and fishing close, vs having a lot of money and having to take vacation time to get to the places we like to play.
I need to remember what it's like in the concrete jungle and be thankful that it's nothing like that here yet.
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