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I have come to the conclusion that the OP actually enjoys this drama. Much like her older threads, where there was always some kind of family drama, I believe this is her new go-to entertainment du jour.
Hey, news flash - this is the Non Romantic Relationships section of the forum. It's always full of drama. That's the nature of this section.
If it makes you feel any better, I have tons of posts on all sorts of interesting topics (to me, anyway) that have absolutely nothing to do with relationships whatsoever - or drama: recipes, interior decorating, current events, genealogy, travel, history, you name it.
I do find human behavior interesting - I have no shame in admitting that. But I much prefer NO DRAMA in my personal relationships, and make a very conscious effort to maintain happy, healthy family and friend relationships with healthy boundaries. So yes, it's pretty interesting to me (not enjoyable, but interesting) when I'm confronted with weird behavior. I do think my friend's behavior falls into that category.
You may not recall this, but I have a mentally ill mother and brother - I mean, disabling mental illness. So my family does have a lot of "drama" to it, since my other healthy brother and my dad and I have had to navigate some very tricky waters over the years. While we've had some successes in dealing with these two very ill people and their behaviors, we've also had some setbacks, and some emotional baggage to deal with ourselves since we've spent so many years around two very dysfunctional and frankly, very sick, individuals, who we love in spite of their mental illnesses.
I went to about three years of counseling to get my head and life together after I became an adult. It wasn't easy, but since I am a logical, analytical person who is not suffering from any mental illnesses, I was able to work through this stuff and move forward. But I do have my "antenna" out for dysfunctional behavior - believe me, I know it and I know enabling and disrespect for personal boundaries when I see it.
My mother and brother do need me and need my love and encouragement. But there's only so much of me to go around. See, I have an understanding of and empathy for people who are mentally ill, but that empathy and high tolerance level for it is coupled with my urge to take them by the shoulders, shake them and say firmly, "YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP AND YOU NEED TO TAKE THE RIGHT PRESCRIPTIONS AND ONLY THE RIGHT PRESCRIPTIONS." This is the key to controlling so many mental illnesses, but it's also something that is often very abused or mishandled.
And finally, I do tend to get fixated on oddities in relationships (for instance, someone ALWAYS standing me up or being late or whatever), and want some feedback from other people because in the past, I've been much too accommodating (prior to my three years of counseling) and I don't always trust my take on a situation. And C-D is anonymous - no one here knows my friends or family so I can vent without too much danger.
And it helps me to hear from other perspectives - well, most of them anyway.
I'm only telling you all this to help you understand where I'm coming from, though I have no idea whether you care or are even interested. If it makes you feel better somehow just to say, "Oh, the OP enjoys the drama," then carry on. I know what's true and what's not.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 01-20-2016 at 06:39 PM..
Hey, news flash - this is the Non Romantic Relationships section of the forum. It's always full of drama. That's the nature of this section.
If it makes you feel any better, I have tons of posts on all sorts of interesting topics (to me, anyway) that have absolutely nothing to do with relationships whatsoever - or drama: recipes, interior decorating, current events, genealogy, travel, history, you name it.
I do find human behavior interesting - I have no shame in admitting that. But I much prefer NO DRAMA in my personal relationships, and make a very conscious effort to maintain happy, healthy family and friend relationships with healthy boundaries. So yes, it's pretty interesting to me (not enjoyable, but interesting) when I'm confronted with weird behavior. I do think my friend's behavior falls into that category.
You may not recall this, but I have a mentally ill mother and brother - I mean, disabling mental illness. So my family does have a lot of "drama" to it, since my other healthy brother and my dad and I have had to navigate some very tricky waters over the years. While we've had some successes in dealing with these two very ill people and their behaviors, we've also had some setbacks, and some emotional baggage to deal with ourselves since we've spent so many years around two very dysfunctional and frankly, very sick, individuals, who we love in spite of their mental illnesses.
I went to about three years of counseling to get my head and life together after I became an adult. It wasn't easy, but since I am a logical, analytical person who is not suffering from any mental illnesses, I was able to work through this stuff and move forward. But I do have my "antenna" out for dysfunctional behavior - believe me, I know it and I know enabling and disrespect for personal boundaries when I see it.
My mother and brother do need me and need my love and encouragement. But there's only so much of me to go around. See, I have an understanding of and empathy for people who are mentally ill, but that empathy and high tolerance level for it is coupled with my urge to take them by the shoulders, shake them and say firmly, "YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP AND YOU NEED TO TAKE THE RIGHT PRESCRIPTIONS AND ONLY THE RIGHT PRESCRIPTIONS." This is the key to controlling so many mental illnesses, but it's also something that is often very abused or mishandled.
And finally, I do tend to get fixated on oddities in relationships (for instance, someone ALWAYS standing me up or being late or whatever), and want some feedback from other people because in the past, I've been much too accommodating (prior to my three years of counseling) and I don't always trust my take on a situation. And C-D is anonymous - no one here knows my friends or family so I can vent without too much danger.
And it helps me to hear from other perspectives - well, most of them anyway.
I'm only telling you all this to help you understand where I'm coming from, though I have no idea whether you care or are even interested. If it makes you feel better somehow just to say, "Oh, the OP enjoys the drama," then carry on. I know what's true and what's not.
Everytime you say BUT it means whatever you said before it isn't true.
Everytime you say BUT it means whatever you said before it isn't true.
I disagree.
For instance:
"I love my grandchildren BUT I am not going to allow them to talk back to me."
"I love my dogs BUT I am not going to let them sleep in the bed with me."
"I love my best friend BUT I'm frustrated and concerned because I think she may have some drug dependency or interactions that are causing her problems."
See how that works?
Don't fall for pithy pop psychology and catchall phrases.
"I love my grandchildren BUT I am not going to allow them to talk back to me."
"I love my dogs BUT I am not going to let them sleep in the bed with me."
"I love my best friend BUT I'm frustrated and concerned because I think she may have some drug dependency or interactions that are causing her problems."
See how that works?
Don't fall for pithy pop psychology and catchall phrases.
I think you are way too overinvolved in this womans life and need to back away.
I think you are way too overinvolved in this womans life and need to back away.
Don't fall for your own Hype.
We've been very good friends for twenty years and I'm not quite willing to just watch her falter or suffer from a distance - if she's willing to let me help her. However, if she's not - that's another story.
If she does go to the doctor, I guess I'll find out more. But she is under the care of four doctors right now - and I think they're all prescribing drugs and they don't know what the others are prescribing. None of these doctors are treating her for anything particularly serious however, just for the record. She has no chronic conditions that she's aware of or sharing with me. I found out that she's recently had various blood tests and other tests and that everything is fine. But she's getting different meds from different doctors and she doesn't want to share all the information with any of them, which is a bad sign.
While there are many reasons why I dislike those big health conglomerates the one reason that I like them is that ALL of the medications prescribed by ALL of the doctors are available for everyone to see, plus ALL of the lab results & test results are available for every other doctor to see. No secrets at all.
My husband has had several major doctors for years, all at different branches of the same big clinic/health conglomerate and they all can read his medical file and the notes written by every other doctor.
In fact, when he was in the hospital this autumn I had a question about a fall that he had taken about five years ago. He was treated at a different hospital in the same system. I was absolutely amazed when the current doctor was able to pull up the doctor's notes, lab reports and even an X-ray on the computer within seconds regarding that injury and answer my question.
While there are many reasons why I dislike those big health conglomerates the one reason that I like them is that ALL of the medications prescribed by ALL of the doctors are available for everyone to see, plus ALL of the lab results & test results are available for every other doctor to see. No secrets at all.
My husband has had several major doctors for years, all at different branches of the same big clinic/health conglomerate and they all can read his medical file and the notes written by every other doctor.
In fact, when he was in the hospital this autumn I had a question about a fall that he had taken about five years ago. He was treated at a different hospital in the same system. I was absolutely amazed when the current doctor was able to pull up the doctor's notes, lab reports and even an X-ray on the computer within seconds regarding that injury and answer my question.
Yep, I know what you mean - I've used the same healthcare system for about ten or more years now and it's great to have all that in one place. (However, apparently "If I like my doctor, I can keep my doctor" isn't true because as of Jan 1 that entire huge healthcare network is "out of network" for me and I'm having to switch to a whole new system, new doctors, new everything and am wondering if I have to print out my records or what?)
That being said, I do think they have to make the effort to do it, rather than just taking the patients' word for it, if more than one health system is involved (which is definitely the case with my friend). I don't think that they can type in the patient's info and automatically every prescription just shows up under their SS number or whatever. I know my dad had to go to a specialist and his regular doctor had to request the labwork and other stuff repeatedly for about a month from the other system and doctor. This was just a few months ago.
So I hope my friend is going to be honest about everything she's on if she goes in for a complete physical. Like I said, I just found out that she's recently (and regularly) had blood work and a physical done and everything was normal. But I also know that not everything shows up on basic screening tests - they're just the tip of the iceberg.
I had a friend who was bipolar. She was prescribed so many psychotropic meds that eventually she had to be put into a behavioral health facility and weaned off just about everything and then meds were slowly introduced to see what was causing her wide array of bizarre behaviors. She went from about 15 meds to about 3.
My MIL who passed away recently of Alzheimer's went absolutely batty at one point last year. I mean, we know she had Alzheimer's but still - and she was in a terrible facility and we didn't feel she was receiving good care. When we took over her care and switched doctors and facilities, they took one look at her long list of prescriptions and said, "This is part of her behavioral and stress problem." They managed to get her from 13 different meds to 4.
And I know in her case, all those original meds were being prescribed by the same two doctors. There were many contraindications and possible side effects and meds that were not ideally taken together - it was crazy! And making HER crazy on top of struggling with Alzheimer's.
So I do worry about taking too many prescription drugs, especially if many of them are psychotropic.
I have come to the conclusion that the OP actually enjoys this drama. Much like her older threads, where there was always some kind of family drama, I believe this is her new go-to entertainment du jour.
There are plenty of CD posters whose names I associate with drama, but Kathryn is not on that list. I have read many, many posts of hers filled with level-headedness, wisdom, compassion, and interest. Who doesn't have *some* drama in their life at various times? She has given out good suggestions and advice to other posters many times, and now she's here asking for some for this situation.
I have friends whose lives I suspect are 30 different kinds of Hell.
One in particular at the Advanced Age of 60 has clearly been suffering Anxiety for decades but only this year has actually used the A word.
I could try and make her face something she's still not willing to face, or I could keep it light and at Her Pace.
I keep it light and at her pace.
Kathryn if you're as good friends as you say, she will appreciate this space and also, come back to you when she's ok again. There is something going on you aren't even guessing at, even if its just Anxiety or Depression or Illness or she's decided she just doesn't like you all that much.
The best way for the friendship to survive is for you to back off. I mean really light stuff, a quick call. None of this Go To The Doctor Or Else guilt trip, that will just get her back up and rightly so.
At the end of the day she's entitled to be as flaky as she wants. The only person you can control is You.
Love her Despite her issues. Don't tempt fate by organizing dates or times. Don't mention Monet courses or travel or anything that might end in frustration by cancelled plans.
JMO - its Make or Break time. If you push her now, she may well vanish forever.
Just an observation - youre acting like a Man would - wanting to Fix Everything when sometimes all you need do is hug them silently.
I have friends whose lives I suspect are 30 different kinds of Hell.
One in particular at the Advanced Age of 60 has clearly been suffering Anxiety for decades but only this year has actually used the A word.
I could try and make her face something she's still not willing to face, or I could keep it light and at Her Pace.
I keep it light and at her pace.
Kathryn if you're as good friends as you say, she will appreciate this space and also, come back to you when she's ok again. There is something going on you aren't even guessing at, even if its just Anxiety or Depression or Illness or she's decided she just doesn't like you all that much.
The best way for the friendship to survive is for you to back off. I mean really light stuff, a quick call. None of this Go To The Doctor Or Else guilt trip, that will just get her back up and rightly so.
At the end of the day she's entitled to be as flaky as she wants. The only person you can control is You.
Love her Despite her issues. Don't tempt fate by organizing dates or times. Don't mention Monet courses or travel or anything that might end in frustration by cancelled plans.
JMO - its Make or Break time. If you push her now, she may well vanish forever.
Just an observation - youre acting like a Man would - wanting to Fix Everything when sometimes all you need do is hug them silently.
I don't know how many times or ways I need to tell you this but I AM NOT PUSHING HER. I didn't give her any sort of ultimatum. The ultimatum is in my own head - if she doesn't get herself checked out, or level with me, or whatever, and continues to stand me up with no explanation, then I am not going to continue to accept HER invitations and ideas for getting together.
And these are HER ideas as I've explained over and over again. I'm not calling her up and saying, "Hey, how 'bout we do such and such next week?" SHE is doing this with me, and if I can do it, I've been saying, "Sure, why not?" AND THEN BEING STOOD UP BY THE VERY PERSON WHO SET IT UP.
Yes, she can be as flaky as she wants to be - go forth and be flaky is how I feel about it. But I can choose whether or not to let her get those flakes all over me.
And sorry - I'm not going to stop telling her what's going on in my life when we're discussing things, just because she might get the idea to tag along. If I'm already doing something, and she wants to tag along, she's welcome to. If she wants to cancel, that's fine too because from here on out, I'm not planning things around her.
This isn't' a matter of "her coming back to me when she's ready." SHE IS ALREADY HERE. She doesn't give me time to miss her, to wish she'd come back into my life or be more involved - she is in my life and involved. In order to give her space, I'd need to stop taking her calls or stop getting together with her, which is not what I think she wants and frankly not what I really want because in spite of her inconsistency when it comes to get togethers, we have a lot of history together and I like her a lot. In fact, I love her and don't want to hurt her by "backing off."
Honestly, I've explained the hell out of this about twenty times now to you. Why do you insist on thinking that I am instigating plans, or calls, or get togethers when I keep telling you over and over again that she's the one wanting to get together all the time?
Here's a good example, from yesterday:
Her: "Hey, girl - I want to take you to lunch tomorrow for your birthday."
Me: "That sounds nice - let's do it earlier rather than later, because I have a 2 pm appointment."
Her: "Let me check my schedule and see if I can do lunch tomorrow."
OK, so she just called and invited me to lunch - and now she's not sure she can do lunch. WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT WITH HER?
By the way, the weather today was terrible so we decided to do dinner Saturday. Maybe. We'll see if that happens. One thing is for sure, I will have a backup plan.
I think she IS going to go to the class tonight though - she finally did register and she sounded excited about it when she called earlier. So we'll see. I'm hoping she comes and hoping she enjoys herself. I know I will, and whether she comes or not, I have other friends showing up so it's all good.
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