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I do think it's good for schools to have sanitizer readily available because, as people have pointed out, kids tend to skip handwashing or do a poor job, and sanitizer is better than nothing. If I were a teacher, I would want to Lysol the bejeebies out of everything every day after school.
I know right, thinking of my son times 30 makes me feel for the teacher. He is the grossest little thing, sweet, but pretty gross. I'm always having to send him back to the sink to wash up. He could care less, whatever it is on his hands. lol
Hand sanitizer will not wash poop, snot, dirt, etc. off your hands. Soap is a surfactant, which binds to the funk and allows it to wash off a surface. Even if you rub your hands in a washing motion, hand sanitizer does not work the same way.
I beg to differ. I work in a doctor's office and I use hand sanitizer a lot. (Some of our exam rooms don't even have sinks.) It will take off small amounts of blood if you rub, also pen marks. I do think everyone should wash their hands with soap after using the bathroom.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-20-2012 at 01:28 PM..
Reason: some messed up typing there!
I beg to differ. I work in a doctor's office and I use hand sanitizer a lot. (Some of our exam rooms don't even have sinks.) It will take off small amounts of blood if you rub, also pen marks. I do think everyone should wash their hands with soap after using the bathroom.
Ew, I'm sorry but that sounds kind of gross. Some of your exam rooms don't have sinks? What if something nasty happens in there? You have to run to the bathroom? I hope so, and they don't just use the gel, but then they have to touch the doors. Sorry but that thought grosses me out a bit. I think all exam rooms should have a sink. But, I guess this is a bit off topic. I do know most classrooms have one now a days.
I think what we can say at this point is that sick children should stay home.
Schools should have reasonable limits for school absences. A sick child should not be considered "truant".
Absences for deaths in a family should not be considered truancy.
Missed work should be completed.
Hand hygiene, including washing with soap and water and using hand sanitizer (with 60% alcohol or greater) can reduce the number of infections picked up at school and reduce absences due to infections.
There is no reason to fear hand sanitizers. They do not produce resistant germs and frequent use will not damage the hands.
I think what we can say at this point is that sick children should stay home.
Schools should have reasonable limits for school absences. A sick child should not be considered "truant".
Absences for deaths in a family should not be considered truancy.
Missed work should be completed.
Hand hygiene, including washing with soap and water and using hand sanitizer (with 60% alcohol or greater) can reduce the number of infections picked up at school and reduce absences due to infections.
There is no reason to fear hand sanitizers. They do not produce resistant germs and frequent use will not damage the hands.
I wish the school administration held your belief, some do not. Some people abuse the system and we all pay the price. Life goes on for the most part.
People fear a lot of things, like getting sick for example. I think most of the population is level headed when it comes to most of it, including hand gel and illness at school. Although to be fair, I've never heard of anyone in fear of hand gel. lol I think it's one of those issues, why use so much if it doesn't do anything? I personally don't think lotion, gel or perfume are great when used in excess, most things aren't as a general rule but that does't equate fear. Hand gel simply cost more than washing your hands and it stinks. Why use jugs of it because your afraid of getting sick? Sometimes I think we just need to relax, get sick, get over it and move on. Obsessive hand gel usage can get irritating, and not just to ones skin. IMO.
I didn't read the whole thread, but do have one interesting thing to ask and see if others have seen this. We lived with my in-laws for a few months before we bought our current home. During that time, my son was able to attend the public pre-school in the town. We figured why not send him so he has something to do. Now my in-laws have a beautiful large home, but they live in a town with a below average school system (my wife and her sister went to private school). Still we figured it would be worth it for the four hours a day he would be there to be doing something and not just sitting at home.
After about a month, he came down with strep. Get that over with and a month later it happened again, then again. We were getting close to moving and it was near the holidays, so we made the decision to just take him out of that school for a couple months and he would start again after we moved. The doctor inspired this decision saying that he needed some time to completely heal and his last does of antibiotics was pretty heavy duty.
We went into school to pick up his things and among them was a toothbrush. We had never sent a toothbrush to school and I asked them what this was for. The teacher said; "Oh we reinforce proper hygiene here at school which includes brushing teeth after we have a snack. Some of the kids we deal with do not have that kind of reinforcement at home." She then showed me the container of ~15 toothbrushes in their bathroom, each brush was labelled with the kids name, but they were all in the same container, basically a big cup. She then assured me they change them out every three months.
I looked at her and held back my sudden urge to slap the teacher silly and calmly informed her that she didn't perhaps see any correlation between my son having three cases of strep, one of which was severe and his use of a toothbrush in school? She told me, well streps been going around. Well, duh, you have a bunch of 4 year olds using toothbrushes that are stored together in a cup in the bathroom and you never changed his out even after he was sick. I wonder why all the kids are getting sick with strep...
When we moved to our new house (in a decidedly better school district) and went to meet the pre-school teacher I asked her if the kids brush their teeth in the class. She looked at me like I had three heads and said, "No, why would we do that? It would be an instant germ factory and we don't need sick kids." I explained to her what the other school had done and was quite satisfied leaving my son with her based on the horrified expression she had.
I never said they eliminate all organisms. If I did, please link to the post that gave you that impression.
I have repeatedly said that hand washing and sanitizers are complementary. Can you link to a post where I say only use sanitizers, do not wash your hands?
It does happen to be true that organisms do not become resistant to alcohol based hand rubs. All the biologist wants to know about hand hygiene:
"(iv) Resistance.
No acquired resistance to ethanol, isopropanol, or n-propanol has been reported to date."
Bacteria become resistant to antibiotics, not to hand sanitizers.
"Fine but do not OVERSTATE the case that sanitiziers eliminate all germs (viral and bacterial), that it is impossible for them to convey resistance, etc as the first link stated."
The link you posted is what I was referring to.
Reported TO DATE....meaning that it is not IMPOSSIBLE. And to be clear, an antibiotic is any chemical that kills bacteria. While most antibiotics work chemically, we know bacteria can evolve quickly, and some are already resistant to alcohol.
Ew, I'm sorry but that sounds kind of gross. Some of your exam rooms don't have sinks? What if something nasty happens in there? You have to run to the bathroom? I hope so, and they don't just use the gel, but then they have to touch the doors. Sorry but that thought grosses me out a bit. I think all exam rooms should have a sink. But, I guess this is a bit off topic. I do know most classrooms have one now a days.
It would be wonderful if all the exam rooms had sinks. Unfortunately, they don't. We do keep sanitizer, baby wipes and plastic bags in every room, and there are sinks at the medicine counters as well as in the bathrooms and the kitchen.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-20-2012 at 02:00 PM..
Reason: Just can't type today!
I didn't read the whole thread, but do have one interesting thing to ask and see if others have seen this. We lived with my in-laws for a few months before we bought our current home. During that time, my son was able to attend the public pre-school in the town. We figured why not send him so he has something to do. Now my in-laws have a beautiful large home, but they live in a town with a below average school system (my wife and her sister went to private school). Still we figured it would be worth it for the four hours a day he would be there to be doing something and not just sitting at home.
After about a month, he came down with strep. Get that over with and a month later it happened again, then again. We were getting close to moving and it was near the holidays, so we made the decision to just take him out of that school for a couple months and he would start again after we moved. The doctor inspired this decision saying that he needed some time to completely heal and his last does of antibiotics was pretty heavy duty.
We went into school to pick up his things and among them was a toothbrush. We had never sent a toothbrush to school and I asked them what this was for. The teacher said; "Oh we reinforce proper hygiene here at school which includes brushing teeth after we have a snack. Some of the kids we deal with do not have that kind of reinforcement at home." She then showed me the container of ~15 toothbrushes in their bathroom, each brush was labelled with the kids name, but they were all in the same container, basically a big cup. She then assured me they change them out every three months.
I looked at her and held back my sudden urge to slap the teacher silly and calmly informed her that she didn't perhaps see any correlation between my son having three cases of strep, one of which was severe and his use of a toothbrush in school? She told me, well streps been going around. Well, duh, you have a bunch of 4 year olds using toothbrushes that are stored together in a cup in the bathroom and you never changed his out even after he was sick. I wonder why all the kids are getting sick with strep...
When we moved to our new house (in a decidedly better school district) and went to meet the pre-school teacher I asked her if the kids brush their teeth in the class. She looked at me like I had three heads and said, "No, why would we do that? It would be an instant germ factory and we don't need sick kids." I explained to her what the other school had done and was quite satisfied leaving my son with her based on the horrified expression she had.
Oh goodness, now that is terrible. Some people just don't have common sense. I hope she has stopped that practice. Thats good hygiene gone bad. lol
Glad you uncovered the mystery.
I didn't read the whole thread, but do have one interesting thing to ask and see if others have seen this. We lived with my in-laws for a few months before we bought our current home. During that time, my son was able to attend the public pre-school in the town. We figured why not send him so he has something to do. Now my in-laws have a beautiful large home, but they live in a town with a below average school system (my wife and her sister went to private school). Still we figured it would be worth it for the four hours a day he would be there to be doing something and not just sitting at home.
After about a month, he came down with strep. Get that over with and a month later it happened again, then again. We were getting close to moving and it was near the holidays, so we made the decision to just take him out of that school for a couple months and he would start again after we moved. The doctor inspired this decision saying that he needed some time to completely heal and his last does of antibiotics was pretty heavy duty.
We went into school to pick up his things and among them was a toothbrush. We had never sent a toothbrush to school and I asked them what this was for. The teacher said; "Oh we reinforce proper hygiene here at school which includes brushing teeth after we have a snack. Some of the kids we deal with do not have that kind of reinforcement at home." She then showed me the container of ~15 toothbrushes in their bathroom, each brush was labelled with the kids name, but they were all in the same container, basically a big cup. She then assured me they change them out every three months.
I looked at her and held back my sudden urge to slap the teacher silly and calmly informed her that she didn't perhaps see any correlation between my son having three cases of strep, one of which was severe and his use of a toothbrush in school? She told me, well streps been going around. Well, duh, you have a bunch of 4 year olds using toothbrushes that are stored together in a cup in the bathroom and you never changed his out even after he was sick. I wonder why all the kids are getting sick with strep...
When we moved to our new house (in a decidedly better school district) and went to meet the pre-school teacher I asked her if the kids brush their teeth in the class. She looked at me like I had three heads and said, "No, why would we do that? It would be an instant germ factory and we don't need sick kids." I explained to her what the other school had done and was quite satisfied leaving my son with her based on the horrified expression she had.
I wish the emoticon list had one closer to my real expression, which is more like this:
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Sorry but that thought grosses me out a bit. I think all exam rooms should have a sink. But, I guess this is a bit off topic. I do know most classrooms have one now a days.
Why use jugs of it because your afraid of getting sick? Sometimes I think we just need to relax, get sick, get over it and move on. Obsessive hand gel usage can get irritating, and not just to ones skin. IMO.
