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I don't view that as a terrible thing. That's exactly what I'm advocating. Why are middle class or lower middle class people having more than one child? We aren't an agrarian society anymore. You don't need to reproduce to get more cheap labor. Children are expensive now a days. You're suppose to care for your kids, not screw them over because you wanted something cute.
also, people need to chill with the "be fruitful and multiply" verse. The bible is against premarital sex. Where's the outrage against that? No where, instead I see anti abortion or anti gay rights parades.
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Originally Posted by stellastar2345
yes, but I hear that line anytime I bring up the idea that maybe people shouldn't be having a plethora of kids that they can't afford. It really irks me that people decide which biblical verses matters and which don't.
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Originally Posted by wac_432
You might as well post: "I lost this debate."
Sheesh, if you don't like someone's semi-reasonable opinion, nobody is forcing you to read and respond.
Really? You call this semi-reasonable? I call it off topic.
My parents could well have afforded to help us kids out for college but they just didn't want to. By the way, at 17, I was living on my own 2000 miles from my parents with a full time job (while finishing high school) and supporting myself. My parents just didn't think college was important. Fine, they weren't obligated to help out that way.
But 10 years later when I'm still struggling in night classes and my parents needed help, none of us kids were making enough money to help them out. What comes around, goes around.
Flash forward 20 years. When I went back to stay with my mom, her sister, and her sister's daughter for a while, my mom couldn't understand why I didn't have a job that paid as well as her niece did. My cousin's job required a Bachelor's degree (why, she still doesn't know) and we both told my mother that many times. She just doesn't care. While I was visiting, I was looking for a job and meantime, I thought I could go back to the local college and finish my degree. I needed just 3 classes, one semester's worth, but I wouldn't be able to afford it on my own. My mother refused to help. The next day she was complaining again about me not having the kind of job where I could afford to buy a house and save for retirement.
I still hear from so many people who worked their way through college like I did before tuition started going sky high, and they all think if they did it, everyone can do it. The difference between those days and these, however, is about an extra $40,000 to $100,000 more in tuition, jobs paying only marginally better then before, and far fewer grants and scholarships (most of which go to high schoolers, anyway). People don't understand that higher education is fantastically expensive and working your way through isn't like it used to be. If I had saved every penny I made and not paid anything out in rent or food or bills for the last 10 years, I could just about take that money and pay for one year's tuition at a state university. What gets me is that back in the 80s (before Reagan came along and screwed everything over), California's state universities were free. I wish I had been able to take advantage of that at the time.
I suppose you think that every parent who has means should be required to will all of the assets they worked for to their children as well.
Bill Gates is not willing his children any of his assets, neither is Warren Buffet or numerous others who are beyond having means to do so.
They feel their children should earn their own way and be responsible for themselves and not count on a hand out from their parents.
+1
There was a time in my father's family history (late 19th, early 20th century) when his family had money. It was earned rather than inherited. When the sons came of age and came looking for family money handouts, they were refused the handout and told to work the land (the family had a ranch and this is partially what helped them earn their fortune) for a period of years like any other employee, because they weren't gonna just get the money handed over for nothing.
The sons did just that. In doing so, they learned the value of a work ethic.
Having means to do something doesn't mean you're OBLIGATED to do it....especially if some entitled brat EXPECTS you're going to do it.
This is why there is such a grave difference between trust fund babies and self-made wealth.
Because getting an education without some sort of sacrifice usually means the child doesn't value it at all. If you earn it, it becomes very precious to you. And as for "suffering" - lately, the definition of suffering has come to mean "having to work through college, and living with roomates."
The long-ago phrase coined by my ex comes to mind right about now...
Poor Ittle Doodums
Last edited by rhiannon67; 10-08-2014 at 12:02 AM..
My parents could well have afforded to help us kids out for college but they just didn't want to. By the way, at 17, I was living on my own 2000 miles from my parents with a full time job (while finishing high school) and supporting myself. My parents just didn't think college was important. Fine, they weren't obligated to help out that way.
But 10 years later when I'm still struggling in night classes and my parents needed help, none of us kids were making enough money to help them out. What comes around, goes around.
If your parents needed financial help down the road, then they didn't really have the funds to put their kids through college.
Maybe, but I'm naturally a saver. I have around 10k saved up (I'm only 21), and I will live with my parents after college graduation for a few years (they have no issue with this) and save up whatever I earn til I feel more financially secure.
I would prefer to live by myself after college (and I'll have the means to do so), and I would have liked to have studied international affairs or history in college, but I'm making sacrifices now to ensure that I will be financially secure in as little time as possible.
If I have a child, I don't want to limit them because I can't afford the basic necessities (college is a necessity of the modern world, in my opinion). I find others opinions on this interesting. I feel that a parent's responsibility is to give their child the best opportunities. From what I can see, not paying for college does more harm than good.
So many things wrong with your warped elitist attitude on education....
Who are you to be telling other people how much to save when you haven't even begun a career....
You plan to "sacrifice" by living at home rent free while you "save everything you make" to start life debt free???
Must be nice, most people have to "sacrifice" by actually paying for food, shelter, clothing...
Keep looking down your nose at hard working people who don't have to "sacrifice" by living rent free with their parents...
And while you are recommending financial planners to folks, maybe you should look into one yourself. If you really thing 50K will be enough to fund even 2 years of college 18 years from now you really don't have much of a grasp on inflation. In fact, you should start saving now yourself for future children's education fund because it will take a lot more than 2800/yr per child.
Your opinions, regardless of validity, might be a tad less revolting if you didn't come across as an arrogant, pompous, egotistical child who feels that it's her birthright to have a good life. Seriously, is this what we parents get for trying to do right by our children? A generation of entitled kids who think that by doing well in school that will compensate for having a crappy all around attitude? Who think that parents must save at least 50,000 towards college expenses or they're not qualified to be parents? who think that they should have the best life and the best of everything. WTH.
Being a good, responsible parent is more than throwing money at your child. A whole lot more. Far too many people think that by giving Fauntleroy and Emily the world they are being good parents, when it's more than just that. There are people in less affluent families that are happy, nurturing homes. You don't know or understand the parent's burden, so please, stop preaching as if you do know. I think many of us have as many children as we think we can afford/handle and just because we all can't set up large little nest eggs like your parents did doesn't make any of us unqualified.
Since I can't give you the rep points this post so richly deserves...
Motivation and work ethic aren't gained or lost by being able to put 100% into your studies when at the university. If your child hasn't learned how to work hard by college, it's too late, my friends.
I had plenty of hardworking friends who had to work low paying jobs while trying to get their STEM degree. Many ended up dropping out. How can you hack 5 class hours, 10 to 15 homework/study/ta office hours, and still try to hold down a part time job and maybe sleep a few hours a week? You can't, and none did. Those that managed to graduate did so with abysmal GPAs and no extracurricular/internships/co-ops and ended up in low-paying go- nowhere positions.
We're turning deeper into a class system defined by the haves and have-nots. If you don't spend 18 years as a have- not to scrape together a good part of that quarter-million today's babies are going to need for college, then your progeny are not going to be able to claw their way out from the meilieu, work ethic or no. Harsh reality. Best face up to it sooner rather than later.
Parents will help out how they can. Some will not have money to help, but they might allow the kid to live at home rent free, pay for the food and do the kids laundry, that in itself is worth a lot of money.
My parents had the finances to help, but refused to help me.
I've been working 25-45 hours per week since I was 19. I'm 24 now and in my final year of college. I've had to take out student loans to help out with tuition, but otherwise, I have paid for every single expense out of my own pocket. I live in an off-campus apartment. I have since the beginning of my freshman year.
My gpa is absolute crap and I never joined any clubs/sororities. I have virtually no friends because I don't have the time to hang out with people. I get maybe four to six hours of sleep every night.
Would I have liked them to help me? Sure. I'd get more sleep or at least get to make friends. Maybe my gpa wouldn't suck. But honestly, I feel like I know more about the "real world" than other students whose parents help them out or pay for everything. That's just me though.
If nothing else, I'd love to get rid of the dark circles under my eyes.
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