diversity? Racism? (Phoenix, Scottsdale, Gilbert: house, rent, lease)

[aj661]

Originally Posted by TurcoLoco

All this race talk seems really amusing when you consider the possibility of all humans coming from Adam and Eve or (worst case scenario) from apes!

I hate every race and everyone equally till they give my posts a positive point!!

Generally I don't like Homosapiens of any color, but those crazy Turkish people are the worst! (BUT...I do make individual exceptions).

TL, I'll give you a point if you promise to quit whining. We be back from Illinois. I'll give you a call later today if I remember and if I don't sleep all day. Not sure why I'm still up at 0322, must have forgotten to go to sleep again-gotta work on that.

BTW, supposedly it's been proven scientifically that everyone on the planet is descended from only two sets of DNA. Whether they were named Adam and Eve or Dick and Jane, massive in-breeding on a global scale explains the insanity of our species.

[Great Joy]

Originally Posted by cxray

We do have some white trash/redneck elements. Those people mostly congregate on the west side and east Mesa. In general, I would avoid the west side. People in the Phoenix metro (aka the valley) generally make fun of the west side because it can very white trash. The Arrowhead area is wealthy but it's mostly fully of rich retirees but the younger people in Arrowhead tend to be a little racist. So I wouldn't live in Goodyear, Suprise or Peoria if I could help it.

The most liberal and diverse area in the valley is South Tempe/Chandler/Ahwautukee area. Intel is located there and most of the engineers in the area are Indian or Pakastani. Little Asia is located in that area at the cross-streets of Warner and Dobson. Also, Scottsdale tends to be pretty wealthy and progressive.

However, compared to Omaha, the west side is pretty liberal!

{From another one of your posts:}
I was in Aribba Mexican restaurant in Bell and the 101 (Arrowhead). This redneck got up and slammed his fists on our table because some of us were using the F word too loudly. Granted, we were wrong for cursing(it was my idiot friend who lacks an inner voice). Nonetheless, he could have asked us nicely instead of pounding his fists on our table and calling us F%$%$#sticks. Sorry but that is so West Side!

I owe you an apology. I know stereotyping is wrong. I met some great people in the west valley; I'm sure you are one of them. At the same time, I wish people in the west valley would take some responsibility for their backward elements instead of denying it all the time. I know you guys think people rip on the west side out of spite but there is some truth to a lot of the jokes about the west side. Watch the news and a lot of that happens near Glendale. My car insurance dropped 200 bucks a year for simply moving back to the east valley due to the car theft up there; and I lived in Arrowhead

cxray, very interesting, "generalized", and contradictory posts. You apologized for stereotyping, and then started doing it again. If you think the west side is so liberal with white trash and rednecks, then why did your friend use such awful and loud language and why didn't you stop him/her? I'm glad that man told your friend to stop. Why do you call him a redneck? He was actually stopping your friend because of his "conservative" language belief.

Westsiders are not more white trash, redneck, backward, etc than the eastsiders are. It seems like some (not all ) eastsiders just want to think they're superior to everyone else. Goodyear, Surprise, and Peoria are actually wonderful cities with lots of great decent people.

We watch the news too, and there is not more happening near Glendale than anywhere else in Phoenix. The areas that are in the news the most are the "worst" areas that have been brought up in other Phoenix threads. The majority of people we've met here in Phoenix (both eastside and westside) have been very decent, friendly, kind, and good people.

[bigtallredhead]

Originally Posted by Arizona Annie

The reason I put emphasis on the word "perception" is for the very reason you mentioned, because I too have Mexican friends whom I love and respect. They too are working hard to learn English so they can better themselves here and assimilate. Unfortunately, they are in the minority.

I don't think there is anything wrong with learning another language either. However, I do have a problem with people being forced to learn a language in order to cater to people who come to this country illegally and have no interest in learning the language spoken here. I would not expect to be catered to in this way if I moved to another country, nor would I be. The problem with the numbers of illegal Hispanic people in this country is not that they are bad people, it is simply because we can no longer support the numbers streaming in.

I truly believe they hurt their cause by marching to demand rights as illegals. Do some research on immigration to Mexico and look at what you would be allowed to do as a non-Mexican in their country (even if you immigrate legally)and compare it with what is happening here. If we want to continue to help the Mexican lower class, we should help them to improve their position in Mexico. When they protest in our streets, they are simply protesting in the wrong country.

Brandishing a Mexican flag at a protest rally for illegal rights is not a show of pride, it is a slap in the face of legal Americans. I think it was a costly mistake; that slap in the face woke up a lot of Americans who were not speaking openly about the issues prior to the protests.

I do think they hurt there cause when they do that, but most did not actualy participate in those marches keep in mind.. As far as learning English goes, there is a shortage of classes right now with major waiting lists. The problem is that just too many people want to come here, and we cannot support them all without being overwhelmed. Our "land of immigrants" rhetoric is really not helpful at this point.

The one thing that bothers me most about this, is the efect on ethnic relations even among many U.S. born citizens. 60% of those of Mexican decent in the U.S. (45% of adults) were born here, including about half of them who are third+ generation.

Almost all of them speak English, but a lot do have a strong amotional affiliation with migrants that can get in the way of clear thinking. Also, there are indeed a lot (but NOT most!) whites and others who are truly bigoted against Latinos and are unfortunately emboldened by the illegal immigration situation. But there are not most who want the border to be enforced, contrary to much media propoganda. And racism goes and other bigotry goes both ways!

According to polls the majority of U.S. citizen Hispanic actualy support a hybrid immigration plan, including effective employer enforcement, an earned legalization program for the majority but far from all illegal migrants (those who are longer established with families here for the most part), and more secure I.D. as well as stronger enforcement against both employers and at at the border and criminal jails. But the majority actualy DO NOT support increased legal immigration from mexico, and while a slight majority support a "guest worker" program in theory (and are less likely to then the U.S. public as a whole), when it come down to a specific proposal far below what much of business wants, -most actualy are not in support.
Prop 200 and subsequent restriction measures also got about half the hispanic vote in favor as well. but I think a lot of hispanics (and many others) who feel this way unfortunately also feel intimidated from speaking out.

Unfortunately, far too many mass immigration advocates see any opposition as "racist", even while often being very bigoted themselves. People who want to restrict immigration are clearly NOT all in the same camp nor all have the same motivations, and I think for the majority of us, our motivations are largely quite valid, but that dose not typically get emphasized by the "mainstreem" media, which seems to be more and more out of touch with most of, and most segments of, the overall public. -Emil.

[bigtallredhead]

Unfortunately, the human tendency towards being an ### is pervasive throughout the planet (though to somewhat varying degrees), -and bigotry is just one expression of this. -There are too many of us now, -the human population explosion is driving many of us crazy. With environmental destruction that is now occurring, peek oil, and just human foolishness, I think the human race is likely to decline severely in numbers over this century, which in the long run will probably be a very GOOD thing.

-It's too bad about all the suffering that will likely occur in the mean time, -including me.

Originally Posted by aj661

Generally I don't like Homosapiens of any color, but those crazy Turkish people are the worst! (BUT...I do make individual exceptions).

TL, I'll give you a point if you promise to quit whining. We be back from Illinois. I'll give you a call later today if I remember and if I don't sleep all day. Not sure why I'm still up at 0322, must have forgotten to go to sleep again-gotta work on that.

BTW, supposedly it's been proven scientifically that everyone on the planet is descended from only two sets of DNA. Whether they were named Adam and Eve or Dick and Jane, massive in-breeding on a global scale explains the insanity of our species.

LOL -Emil.

[bigtallredhead]

I do think unfortunately a LOT of people here do not think anyone who is of certian religions can be an american. I am in the minority you speak of, BTW.

I should mention what you are going through is bigotry but not actualy as much racism per say. Racism is only one form of bigotry. But americans are still diverse, and there are a lot who are more accepting, -I think that the west coast is perhaps a lot more accepting of Muslims on the whole then is Arizona, but you will find bigotry as well as some who are more accepting, wherever you go. It is unfortunate.

I am a White american from a protestant background. However, I am not a mainstreem christian, I do not drink, do not go to bars, am not into sports, I have many unusual interests. I am a vegan (I eat no animal product) -In short I do not fit in and have have been socialy ostracized my whole life as a result. But I still have friends. I know it is harder to be a muslim or other obvious religious minority, but I very much sympathise with what you go through.

Originally Posted by afghaniprinzess

Ok its really funny that everyone keeps mentioning that afghans/iranis are considered WHITE. Yes I may look as white as any other american....I have relatives that have blonde hair and blue eyes....that is NOT the point though...I've experienced the most racism because of my religion (being Muslim) not only after 9/11 but before that too...it doesnt matter how WHITE you are and that should not even be brought into the discussion because like i said before..the racism ive dealt with has not been from "white" people only...Many muslims who are the whitest of white such as Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat Stevens) have experienced racial profiling and racism...etc

ARIZONA ANNIE- Sorry but I am going to disagree with you...your definition of assimilating is not the definition most people have...it would be great if people justed wanted someone to assimilate by respecting the flag and being a good citizen etc...but that is not reality.

You may be one american who does not like to drink or do the other things i mentioned but MANY that I have met will make you feel like an outsider (despite being born here) if you dont partake in any of the things I and CXRAY wrote about. I am definetely not generalizing...there are a few americans I have met who respect me for who i am but OVER ALL..whether in high school...college....at work...etc MOST of the people I know...a big part of their lives revolve around the things I mentioned such as hanging out at bars on the weekends and dating etc and if you say you dont do that they do think you are less american. My teachers seriously thought there was something wrong with me and made me go see the school counselor when I said I wasnt going to the prom or homecoming in high school. Ive felt like an outsider my whole life growing up here...because if someone does want to practice their own beliefs or hold on to certain morals their parents have taught them they arent considered a real american or "normal"....I cant count how many times someone asks me where I am from and I tell them I was born and raised in California and then they say "no, I mean where are you REALLY from?" Now its gotten to the point where I just answer saying I am from Afghanistan because if I say I am just american born in California they dont believe that...because I dont "look" american or do things regular 24 year old american girls do.

CXRAY- I know what you mean by the sikhs you know wearing a turban...there are many Muslim women in my family and friends that cover their head (wear the hijab) and they were born and raised here however they are treated like an outsider and obviously experience racism in many ways every day because they choose to practice a part of their religion and be modest but they are called oppressed or viewed as backward etc.

So the point is that its not only about the color of your skin or the color of your eyes...in my personal experience its more about my religion and beliefs that ive always felt like i wasnt american going through high school and college and even today....unfortunately in MOST situations you do have to assimilate to fit in...and there are a small percentage of people who will accept you for who you are...but thats not common.

Its interesting that you brought up mormons cxray, the few mormons ive met are probably one of the only groups of people that have respected me for who i am. Maybe I should move to Gilbert

Take care. -Emil.

[florida southerner 3]

Originally Posted by afghaniprinzess

Ok its really funny that everyone keeps mentioning that afghans/iranis are considered WHITE. Yes I may look as white as any other american....I have relatives that have blonde hair and blue eyes....that is NOT the point though...I've experienced the most racism because of my religion (being Muslim) not only after 9/11 but before that too...it doesnt matter how WHITE you are and that should not even be brought into the discussion because like i said before..the racism ive dealt with has not been from "white" people only...Many muslims who are the whitest of white such as Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat Stevens) have experienced racial profiling and racism...etc

ARIZONA ANNIE- Sorry but I am going to disagree with you...your definition of assimilating is not the definition most people have...it would be great if people justed wanted someone to assimilate by respecting the flag and being a good citizen etc...but that is not reality.

You may be one american who does not like to drink or do the other things i mentioned but MANY that I have met will make you feel like an outsider (despite being born here) if you dont partake in any of the things I and CXRAY wrote about. I am definetely not generalizing...there are a few americans I have met who respect me for who i am but OVER ALL..whether in high school...college....at work...etc MOST of the people I know...a big part of their lives revolve around the things I mentioned such as hanging out at bars on the weekends and dating etc and if you say you dont do that they do think you are less american. My teachers seriously thought there was something wrong with me and made me go see the school counselor when I said I wasnt going to the prom or homecoming in high school. Ive felt like an outsider my whole life growing up here...because if someone does want to practice their own beliefs or hold on to certain morals their parents have taught them they arent considered a real american or "normal"....I cant count how many times someone asks me where I am from and I tell them I was born and raised in California and then they say "no, I mean where are you REALLY from?" Now its gotten to the point where I just answer saying I am from Afghanistan because if I say I am just american born in California they dont believe that...because I dont "look" american or do things regular 24 year old american girls do.

CXRAY- I know what you mean by the sikhs you know wearing a turban...there are many Muslim women in my family and friends that cover their head (wear the hijab) and they were born and raised here however they are treated like an outsider and obviously experience racism in many ways every day because they choose to practice a part of their religion and be modest but they are called oppressed or viewed as backward etc.

So the point is that its not only about the color of your skin or the color of your eyes...in my personal experience its more about my religion and beliefs that ive always felt like i wasnt american going through high school and college and even today....unfortunately in MOST situations you do have to assimilate to fit in...and there are a small percentage of people who will accept you for who you are...but thats not common.

Its interesting that you brought up mormons cxray, the few mormons ive met are probably one of the only groups of people that have respected me for who i am. Maybe I should move to Gilbert

Okay. If you've experienced more "racism" because of your religion, then obviously that would not be racism! Racism is the belief that one's race is better than another genetically, physically, mentally, and culturally--Blacks thinking they are better than Whites or Whites thinking they are better than Blacks. If you are being discriminated against or "looked at" differently because of your religion, then that would be "religionism" not racism!

One big problem today is that the word "racism" or "racist" has become a catch-all term for any sort of bigotry, prejudice, or discrimination for any reason whether race related or far from it. Using this same exact pattern of thinking, it would easily be a suitable term for those being discriminated against because of being obese. Eg. "I've experienced racism because of my weight!" It's the same difference! Or what about this? "I'm a Southern country redneck who moved to NYC, but I get discriminated against by the uppity white collar, big city folks!" Is that racism as well? By your's and most other's definition or at least how the term is presented in the mainstream suggests so!

Islam is a religion, not a race, I understand that. It's just high time everybody comprehends that as well. If it's not related to race then quit calling it racism! It's common sense, not rocket science!

[TurcoLoco]

Originally Posted by aj661

Generally I don't like Homosapiens of any color, but those crazy Turkish people are the worst! (BUT...I do make individual exceptions).

I agree, them crazy Turkish people are the worst!!

TL, I'll give you a point if you promise to quit whining.

A whole point? Wow, you are being generous....thanks!

We be back from Illinois. I'll give you a call later today if I remember and if I don't sleep all day. Not sure why I'm still up at 0322, must have forgotten to go to sleep again-gotta work on that.

Well, what is new? lol

BTW, supposedly it's been proven scientifically that everyone on the planet is descended from only two sets of DNA. Whether they were named Adam and Eve or Dick and Jane, massive in-breeding on a global scale explains the insanity of our species.

I will never ever call anyone the term "inbreed" as a means of insult, according to your comment, we all are already!

[afghaniprinzess]

i agree...its not racism but "religionism" does not mean a person is discriminated for their religious beliefs...that term means a person who is over zealous about their religious beliefs...so neither of us are using the correct terms here It is religious discrimination for the most part however I did use the word racism as well because at least in my experience its all been intertwined as far as being discriminated against. not just for my religion but also my cultural beliefs....when people show discrimination towards me it is hard to say if it just for my religious beliefs or the fact that iam from Afghanistan so thats why i used the term racism since in the end the feelings you have after being shown racism or religious discrimination or whatever else you want to call it...makes you feel the same no matter what.

[Tom Lennox 70]

Originally Posted by sheena

La Raza is what is says.....racist!

Yeah definitely. "La Raza" literally translantes as "The Race" and the National Council of La Raza is the National Council of The Race. Also many of these groups in their founding documents refer to things like "Aztlan" and refuse to revise these documents even in the 21st century.

I've heard next door in California there's some ruckus about a statue in a municipal building outside LA with a sculpture by a Mexican artist with an engraving "it was better before they came here" referring to U.S. control of the Southwest.

I'm of Asian descent and I can tell you that at least from personal experience, the most racist people are first generation immigrants who don't understand American concepts like tolerance.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by twiggy

There is at least two muslim families on every street in my neighborhood. I'm not sure if they experience any "hate". I'm sure they have all felt the "911 back lash". But currently Americans are not as spiteful about it and are more upset with "Texans". lol
Because they hate the president. Attention is else where now. Mostly on our economy, inward, so I don't feel you would suffer any profiling here. That said, I don't notice much racism here at all and people always tell me it's bad here. I guess I don't notice because I don't look for it. That said, if I don't notice it, than how bad could it be. I'm very active in the community.

Why would anyone hate the President? He is doing a great job as a war time president. What we should be doing is going after a congress that doesn't support the war effort.

As far as hatred in the area, I have never felt any and my wife is from Mexico.