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There are always going to be people on the bottom, period.
Yes, there are. Why do you think they're entitled to a better lifestyle than they have earned for themselves? The middle class has a middle class lifestyle. Do you also think they're entitled to a better lifestyle than they've earned for themselves? If so, why? If not, why not?
Most people struggle when they're young adults. That's no big deal. That DOESN'T entitle them to take from others because they are "uncomfortable" with having to struggle. STOP making lame excuses.
Sure, most do. No one is claiming they are entitled to anything because they are "uncomfortable" though. They are saying that paying people what they are actually worth, instead of "market value", is what we should do. As it stands today, managers are greatly overpaid in a lot of places, and regular workers underpaid. For example, at my first job, my manager was paid almost $100k a year. The only difference between him, and myself, was he told people what project they were part of (which we often helped with), and did payroll. You honestly think that is actually worth an extra $70k a year? Not saying his job isn't worth his pay, but ours was certainly worth more based off of what we did for the company, which is why I left. That company was a multi-national company, made billions every quarter, and paid it's marketing folks next to nothing. You can probably figure out who I'm talking about if you really think about it... They were worth quite a bit more, but they don't care, because they were making money hand over fist.
A LOT of companies are like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Employees are paid exactly what their labor/skills are worth. Deal with it.
That is exactly wrong. They are paid as little as possible, so the people up top can rake more money into their bank account. They pay exactly enough to get employees, and not a penny more. If you think otherwise, you are very naïve.
Yes, there are. Why do you think they're entitled to a better lifestyle than they have earned for themselves? The middle class has a middle class lifestyle. Do you also think they're entitled to a better lifestyle than they've earned for themselves? If so, why? If not, why not?
I am not saying people are "entitled" to a better lifestyle. I am saying there are millions of people in this country who are greatly underpaid and overworked. Paying people enough so that they can eat and afford rent is not giving them a "better lifestyle".
Man, you people kill me. You are willing to do anything to keep poor people down. They go and get some grants to go back to school, and you would complain about the government paying for them to go to school. They take out loans, they are irresponsible. Don't do either, and they are lazy and entitled. They can't win with you guys.
Sure, most do. No one is claiming they are entitled to anything because they are "uncomfortable" though. They are saying that paying people what they are actually worth, instead of "market value", is what we should do.
Market value IS what their labor/skills are worth. How do you not understand that?
Quote:
That company was a multi-national company, made billions every quarter, and paid it's marketing folks next to nothing. You can probably figure out who I'm talking about if you really think about it... They were worth quite a bit more, but they don't care, because they were making money hand over fist.
A LOT of companies are like this.
I'm going to explain, AGAIN, exactly WHO owns the corporations and exactly WHO is benefiting from corporate profits and gains in stock share values. PLEASE try to comprehend exactly how this all works...
American workers/retirees have $27 trillion worth of investments in their pensions/retirement accounts. They're shareholders... the owners. That's where a significant amount of corporate profits/share price gains go: to payout pension checks, retirement benefits, and retirement account draws for literally tens of millions of retirees and future retirees.
"At the end of 2014, U.S. household retirement assets totaled a whopping $27 trillion (according to the latest edition of the Federal Reserve's Flow of Funds Report.) Those assets, the great majority of which enjoy some degree of tax advantage, are spread across various sectors of the system: IRAs, pension plans, 401(k) plans and so on."
Having absolutely NO understanding of those facts is exactly why your "beliefs" are so egregiously flawed.
Let's take CalPERS, for example. Guess who's the biggest American investor? No, it's not Warren Buffett. As a matter of fact, it is not even a person. It is CalPERS, the California Public Employees' Retirement System.
CalPERS' top 10 investment holdings:
Exxon Mobil
General Electric
Microsoft
Citigroup
Bank of America
Johnson & Johnson
Wal-Mart
Pfizer
Proctor & Gamble
JP Morgan Chase
Note the cluster of pharma/health care and banking stocks, 5 out of 10. And Wal-Mart is in their top 10, too.
Eliminate/reduce corporate profits, and you eliminate/reduce pension plans and retirement accounts for tens of millions of people, if not more. Corporate profits, dividends, etc., fund the capital gains growth that enables retirees' pension checks and retirement account draws. That's just the way it is.
I am not saying people are "entitled" to a better lifestyle. I am saying there are millions of people in this country who are greatly underpaid and overworked.
They are paid exactly what their labor/skills are worth. It is their responsibility to make do with their income.
I am not saying people are "entitled" to a better lifestyle. I am saying there are millions of people in this country who are greatly underpaid and overworked. Paying people enough so that they can eat and afford rent is not giving them a "better lifestyle".
Man, you people kill me. You are willing to do anything to keep poor people down. They go and get some grants to go back to school, and you would complain about the government paying for them to go to school. They take out loans, they are irresponsible. Don't do either, and they are lazy and entitled. They can't win with you guys.
Nobody is underpaid. They are paid exactly what they are worth based on supply and demand. The market IS WHAT YOU ARE WORTH. It is exact and precise and correct. It doesn’t matter what you want, you are worth what you are worth based on how common you are. If you want more, you have to make yourself worth more by being less common and a better value.
We live in a free country, and the amount of money you have is completely your problem.
Nobody is overworked. Anyone can leave their job any time they want. It’s a free country and nobody is forced to work at any particular job for any longer than they desire. If you want to work less hours, find another job or start your own business.
There is no right to an easy life. There is no right to a job. There is no right to housing. There is no right to food. Squirrels and goldfish understand this, but collectivists do not. Very curious.
Market value IS what their labor/skills are worth. How do you not understand that?
No, market value is what the owners/managers/etc deem their labor/skills to be worth, not the ACTUAL worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
I'm going to explain, AGAIN, exactly WHO owns the corporations and exactly WHO is benefiting from corporate profits and gains in stock share values. PLEASE try to comprehend exactly how this all works...
American workers/retirees have $27 trillion worth of investments in their pensions/retirement accounts. They're shareholders... the owners. That's where a significant amount of corporate profits/share price gains go: to payout pension checks, retirement benefits, and retirement account draws for literally tens of millions of retirees and future retirees.
"At the end of 2014, U.S. household retirement assets totaled a whopping $27 trillion (according to the latest edition of the Federal Reserve's Flow of Funds Report.) Those assets, the great majority of which enjoy some degree of tax advantage, are spread across various sectors of the system: IRAs, pension plans, 401(k) plans and so on."
Having absolutely NO understanding of those facts is exactly why your "beliefs" are so egregiously flawed.
Let's take CalPERS, for example. Guess who's the biggest American investor? No, it's not Warren Buffett. As a matter of fact, it is not even a person. It is CalPERS, the California Public Employees' Retirement System.
CalPERS' top 10 investment holdings:
Exxon Mobil
General Electric
Microsoft
Citigroup
Bank of America
Johnson & Johnson
Wal-Mart
Pfizer
Proctor & Gamble
JP Morgan Chase
Note the cluster of pharma/health care and banking stocks, 5 out of 10. And Wal-Mart is in their top 10, too.
Eliminate/reduce corporate profits, and you eliminate/reduce pension plans and retirement accounts for tens of millions of people, if not more. Corporate profits, dividends, etc., fund the capital gains growth that enables retirees' pension checks and retirement account draws. That's just the way it is.
I hear what you are saying, but that doesn't help the tens of millions of people who don't have the advantage of working for a huge corporation with good benefits, who were also likely underpaid by that corporation. I happen to be one of those, and will have a hefty amount of money for retirement if I stay here.
It's funny you have Exxon on your list though, because they were just reported to have made somewhere around $8.5 billion in profits last quarter. If you think that increase (It was only something like $2 billion same quarter last year) is going into employee pockets.... Well....
Nobody is underpaid. They are paid exactly what they are worth based on supply and demand. The market IS WHAT YOU ARE WORTH. It is exact and precise and correct. It doesn’t matter what you want, you are worth what you are worth based on how common you are. If you want more, you have to make yourself worth more by being less common and a better value.
We live in a free country, and the amount of money you have is completely your problem.
Nobody is overworked. Anyone can leave their job any time they want. It’s a free country and nobody is forced to work at any particular job for any longer than they desire. If you want to work less hours, find another job or start your own business.
There is no right to an easy life. There is no right to a job. There is no right to housing. There is no right to food. Squirrels and goldfish understand this, but collectivists do not. Very curious.
You are 100% correct, on ALL of that. Frankly, I am STUNNED at how many people have absolutely NO CLUE as to the truth of any of this. How on earth do people grow up, become adults, and have literally NO clue as to how pensions, retirement benefits, and retirement account draws are funded? It is unfathomable complete financial illiteracy. I'm at a complete loss as to why SO many people are SO ignorant.
Nobody is underpaid. They are paid exactly what they are worth based on supply and demand. The market IS WHAT YOU ARE WORTH. It is exact and precise and correct. It doesn’t matter what you want, you are worth what you are worth based on how common you are. If you want more, you have to make yourself worth more by being less common and a better value.
We live in a free country, and the amount of money you have is completely your problem.
Nobody is overworked. Anyone can leave their job any time they want. It’s a free country and nobody is forced to work at any particular job for any longer than they desire. If you want to work less hours, find another job or start your own business.
There is no right to an easy life. There is no right to a job. There is no right to housing. There is no right to food. Squirrels and goldfish understand this, but collectivists do not. Very curious.
Many are underpaid, relative to cost of living. If you can't see that, then you are far worse than the "collectivists".
But, I get it. You guys don't care about anyone but yourselves, and the elite. Good for you.
I love how you guys say things like, "Nobody is overworked. Anyone can leave their job any time they want. It’s a free country and nobody is forced to work at any particular job for any longer than they desire. If you want to work less hours, find another job or start your own business. "
Like it is that easy... You guys must be silver spoon brats or something, because anyone who has ever had to live in the real world knows better. There is no, "Just get a better job" for most people. That is simply reality. And you guys aren't living in it.
No, market value is what the owners/managers/etc deem their labor/skills to be worth, not the ACTUAL worth.
Completely incorrect.
Quote:
I hear what you are saying, but that doesn't help the tens of millions of people who don't have the advantage of working for a huge corporation with good benefits, who were also likely underpaid by that corporation. I happen to be one of those, and will have a hefty amount of money for retirement if I stay here.
One doesn't have to work for a large corporation to have an IRA, 401K, etc. ALL pensions, retirement accounts, etc., work the same, big or small, corporate or individual. Get a clue.
Quote:
It's funny you have Exxon on your list though, because they were just reported to have made somewhere around $8.5 billion in profits last quarter. If you think that increase (It was only something like $2 billion same quarter last year) is going into employee pockets.... Well....
Those profits go into retirees' pockets. CalPERS retirees' are getting the benefit of those profits. So is anyone else who has Exxon in their retirement account portfolio. PLEASE explain how you still don't understand that.
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