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Why wasn't there savings before having kids? Why isn't there 2-3 years of income in the bank designed to deal with a break in employment? Why isn't there a savings program in place to handle emergencies? This is bad planning. If this scenario happens, it is the fault of he who did not plan and execute.
Not everyone can save 2-3 years of income before having kids. If you think that, I have a bridge to sell you. When I had my first child, I was 24, making about 28k a year (my husband was making around the same). I had just gotten out of college, and was working an entry level position. Before I got pregnant, I had been told, due to some health concerns, that I would likely not be able to have kids unless it was soon. So, knowing that we both wanted children, we did what we needed to have one.
You can call it bad planning all you want, but everyone doesn't fit in these nice little boxes you people are always talking about. It's nice to think, "Oh, everyone should just make perfect decisions, all the time," but it isn't reality. Sorry to burst your little bubble.
Paying a wage that allows people to eat and live is the moral choice Marc. Your precious business owners are the ones making a choice that is not moral.
Only moral if it's done voluntarily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
So answer this then.... If everyone who was poor suddenly decided to go back to school, or gain some more skills (whatever that may mean), what would happen to all these people who now have these degrees and skills, with no experience, and nowhere to use them? What happens to those who do make it, and take the job from someone else with a degree and skills? They are still stuck flipping burgers, they just now have a degree or skills that aren't being used. My point was, and still is, that it just isn't that simple, and would take a simpleton to think it is.
If everyone decides to jump at the same time, we will suffer earthquakes.
We have a severe shortage of students with STEM degrees, and they are hired as quickly as they graduate. Degree of Liberal Lesbian Art isn't going to be enough to flip burgers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
You also keep saying "you", like I am one of those people. I am a successful woman who has no issues with needing better pay, and I am certainly not "taking stuff" or "stealing from others". So stop being so dramatic, and take you meds.
Stealing is not the correct description. Armed robbery or extortion is.
The whole minimum wage law is nothing but the government, aka the people, force the business owners at gunpoint to pay above fair market rate.
Please explain how that is in any way moral, just or fair.
If everyone betters themselves, society moves forward and advances. New needs arise. New businesses form. New inventions create new demand. There is infinite need for better and better people. Infinite.
In 20 years, there will be no more burger flippers. Period. And that will be a good thing. The new low level loser job will be something better and easier than flipping burgers. That's how a free society evolves.
Sure, new needs would arrive, and a few people would undoubtedly better themselves, which is no different than how it is now. The fact is though, everyone can't do that. If you think they can, you just aren't thinking things through Marc. Everyone can't be a business owner, executive, or inventor. That simply isn't how the world works.
Not everyone can save 2-3 years of income before having kids. If you think that, I have a bridge to sell you. When I had my first child, I was 24, making about 28k a year (my husband was making around the same). I had just gotten out of college, and was working an entry level position. Before I got pregnant, I had been told, due to some health concerns, that I would likely not be able to have kids unless it was soon. So, knowing that we both wanted children, we did what we needed to have one.
You can call it bad planning all you want, but everyone doesn't fit in these nice little boxes you people are always talking about. It's nice to think, "Oh, everyone should just make perfect decisions, all the time," but it isn't reality. Sorry to burst your little bubble.
No, I disagree. This does not require anything near perfection. Just good sense. Most people, not all, but most, can plan adequately, and wait for savings to accumulate and delay immediate gratification. It just has to be taught. Lack of discipline and focus is common, but not inevitable. Your medical situation was unique, however most women can wait and marry the right guy and save for several years and buy a house before having kids. And if not? Don't have kids. Very simple.
Sure, new needs would arrive, and a few people would undoubtedly better themselves, which is no different than how it is now. The fact is though, everyone can't do that. If you think they can, you just aren't thinking things through Marc. Everyone can't be a business owner, executive, or inventor. That simply isn't how the world works.
Correct. But everyone can be a mechanic, a painter, a housecleaner, or a personal assistant. And that is all that is necessary. The better people move up, run the world, and make all our lives better. But even below average people can have a nice life with a little planning, a little focus, and a little discipline.
But we have to demand that effort. Not give them free stuff and make it easy to be useless.
Too effing bad. Either become valuable to others, or live with roomates and walk to work and have a sucky life. You don't get to have a non-sucky life at the expense of others who outperform you. You up your game, you don't drag down others by stealing what you choose not to earn. And it is a big fat choice to stay worthless and low value. It doesn't take much at all to arrive at a decent, pleasant, conservative lifestyle. Just make a few good decisions, better yourself, no illegitimate kids, no drugs, do some exercise, get some sleep. Basic. Very, very basic. And then you get to live a pleasant life with basic necessities. But if you want more? Now, you have to make yourself valuable. It's a choice, and an effort. And you have no right to any of it, you must earn it, or not have it. Pick one.
Bully for you. I grew up poor, and was poor for my college years, and several years afterwards. I no longer am either. I can still understand the plight though, but obviously you now think you are better than those who are struggling.
Most people struggle when they're young adults. That's no big deal. That DOESN'T entitle them to take from others because they are "uncomfortable" with having to struggle. STOP making lame excuses.
So you agree then, that they are not moral when underpaying employees. Got it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
If everyone decides to jump at the same time, we will suffer earthquakes.
We have a severe shortage of students with STEM degrees, and they are hired as quickly as they graduate. Degree of Liberal Lesbian Art isn't going to be enough to flip burgers.
Not everyone can get a STEM degree. Surely you know that? You honestly think the person working down at Home Depot can just up and get a STEM degree of some sort? Come on bruh. And your stereotype of "Liberal Lesbian Art" is just stupid. Grow up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
Stealing is not the correct description. Armed robbery or extortion is.
The whole minimum wage law is nothing but the government, aka the people, force the business owners at gunpoint to pay above fair market rate.
Please explain how that is in any way moral, just or fair.
Someone doesn't know what armed robbery is. I also wasn't aware that a law meant to protect employees could be extortion either. Hmm... Learn something new every day......
How is it moral, just or fair? How is it not? If it were up to you, everyone would be making peanuts, unless they were well educated and skilled in some STEM type profession. To you, "above market rate" is what? Anything deemed a living wage for the poor? What?
You guys act like all these businesses would just pay well on their own. I think we saw in our past that this is not the case.
No, I disagree. This does not require anything near perfection. Just good sense. Most people, not all, but most, can plan adequately, and wait for savings to accumulate and delay immediate gratification. It just has to be taught. Lack of discipline and focus is common, but not inevitable. Your medical situation was unique, however most women can wait and marry the right guy and save for several years and buy a house before having kids. And if not? Don't have kids. Very simple.
No, it really does, and not just in decision making. All it takes is a few bad things to happen, whether through your own fault or not, and things spiral. It isn't just about making a right decision. It is also about getting lucky. Discipline and focus have little to with some people's struggles. My parents, for example, were very hard working people, and would have given us anything we needed, even if it meant them doing without. To say that they should have just not had kids because they weren't rich, or have 2-3 years of savings is asinine. They were great parents.
There were not well educated or skilled. My dad worked construction and my mom worked in a factory that made police uniforms and stuff similar. Neither would have ever made it through college. No, they are not dumb, but they are just not school people. If they had done what you suggest, myself and my sister would not be here, because they would still be waiting to save enough money to have kids. Their grandkids would not be here, and they would be miserable.
To tell people who desperately want children to just, not have them, is ridiculous as well. Another ridiculous thing, is saying that most women can just find a man, save a bunch of money, and buy a house before talking of having kids. Again, not everyone fits in your neat little boxes. I know you think they do, but they don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
Correct. But everyone can be a mechanic, a painter, a housecleaner, or a personal assistant. And that is all that is necessary. The better people move up, run the world, and make all our lives better. But even below average people can have a nice life with a little planning, a little focus, and a little discipline.
But we have to demand that effort. Not give them free stuff and make it easy to be useless.
No, they really can't. I could never be a mechanic. I am not mechanically inclined. I guess I could be a painter or housecleaner or personal assistant, but those jobs pay crap. Why do you think there are so many immigrants doing the first two, and college students, etc doing the 3rd?
And it's nice you think that, but it isn't reality. There are always going to be people on the bottom, period. To claim they are all just lazy and useless... Well... that shows all we need to know about you Marc.
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