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Old 06-12-2019, 08:41 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,443 posts, read 33,753,226 times
Reputation: 14224

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriank7 View Post
This story doesn’t add up. Who took the pic of them bleeding? Where are all the witnesses? No video? No description of those arrested? How is this classified as a homophobic attack. Some kids just want to watch girls kiss. I doubt they attacked them because they were gay.

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/woman...085540202.html
Duplicate thread.


Four arrested after gay couple beaten for refusing to kiss on London bus
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,166 posts, read 13,708,375 times
Reputation: 5545
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
It was two women vs. multiple men. Even though most were teens, itís not like they are children and itís male on female (men are stronger than women), outnumbered. In a restricted space. Itís unlikely they could have successfully defended themselves in any way. Even if they did have a gun or other weapon, they were outnumbered and could have been overpowered and had their weapons taken.

Issues: male violence, homophobia, entitlement, etc.
One wonders whether these women at the time, were engaging in internal dialogues regarding homophobia, entitlement etc, or whether they were wishing they had some way of fighting back?

Self defence using whatever means are a fundamental human right -when people are prevented from carrying a means of defending themselves, then any harm that comes from violence, is also an act of oppression from the State and it's ideology.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:16 PM
 
12,642 posts, read 10,487,316 times
Reputation: 17437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
One wonders whether these women at the time, were engaging in internal dialogues regarding homophobia, entitlement etc, or whether they were wishing they had some way of fighting back?

Self defence using whatever means are a fundamental human right -when people are prevented from carrying a means of defending themselves, then any harm that comes from violence, is also an act of oppression from the State and it's ideology.
But how will this logic address my argument that two women may easily be overpowered by multiple teenage males or grown men, and whatever they have for self-defense could easily be taken from them and used to further injure them or possibly kill them?

Unless you are a woman, you will not understand how women generally feel in the face of one or more men who are out to hurt us. We are weaker and have a harder time fighting back, a gun or knife can be wrestled from our hands and used against us, especially if it isn't just one on one as this fight was not. They can do damage before we even have a chance to grab our weapons, as it's not like we'll have them in our hands 24/7 waiting for a potential attack. They can take the bag we may be carrying that we may have the weapon in. In this case, their bags and phones were actually stolen according to the article. A lot can go wrong in fights with weapons, especially when it is multiple men against two women. Having a weapon for self-defense won't necessarily deter crime or help someone being attacked. My fear is they can lead to further injuries.

Also, this happened on a public bus. Having and using a gun on an enclosed public space like a bus doesn't sound wise. It risks other people getting hurt and it risks injuries far worse than what these men inflicted on these women. I know people are primarily talking about guns, especially because if all goes well it is probably the most effective weapon for self-defense.

Reading this story, four men against two women, do you really think they had a solid chance at defending themselves even with weapons? Honestly? I don't. Unless they had like Army or high martial arts level training to be excellent fighters, they could have been disarmed and further injured in no time. The average woman cannot take on one man, let alone two.

Also, what if they have no interest in carrying a gun or other weapon around all the time for self-defense? I know I don't. I live in a very safe area. I feel no need to carry around a weapon just in case, nor keep up training to know how to use it. I don't like guns, I don't want one.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,166 posts, read 13,708,375 times
Reputation: 5545
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
But how will this logic address my argument that two women may easily be overpowered by multiple teenage males or grown men, and whatever they have for self-defense could easily be taken from them and used to further injure them or possibly kill them?

Unless you are a woman, you will not understand how women generally feel in the face of one or more men who are out to hurt us. We are weaker and have a harder time fighting back, a gun or knife can be wrestled from our hands and used against us, especially if it isn't just one on one as this fight was not. They can do damage before we even have a chance to grab our weapons, as it's not like we'll have them in our hands 24/7 waiting for a potential attack. They can take the bag we may be carrying that we may have the weapon in. In this case, their bags and phones were actually stolen according to the article. A lot can go wrong in fights with weapons, especially when it is multiple men against two women. Having a weapon for self-defense won't necessarily deter crime or help someone being attacked. My fear is they can lead to further injuries.

Also, this happened on a public bus. Having and using a gun on an enclosed public space like a bus doesn't sound wise. It risks other people getting hurt and it risks injuries far worse than what these men inflicted on these women. I know people are primarily talking about guns, especially because if all goes well it is probably the most effective weapon for self-defense.

Reading this story, four men against two women, do you really think they had a solid chance at defending themselves even with weapons? Honestly? I don't. Unless they had like Army or high martial arts level training to be excellent fighters, they could have been disarmed and further injured in no time. The average woman cannot take on one man, let alone two.

Also, what if they have no interest in carrying a gun or other weapon around all the time for self-defense? I know I don't. I live in a very safe area. I feel no need to carry around a weapon just in case, nor keep up training to know how to use it. I don't like guns, I don't want one.
The bottom line is that you don't believe people should be able to carry a means of defence -you're advocating doing nothing, and then analysing the actions of the perpetrators once they've finished doing what they want .... if they survive.

I'm willing to bet that far more women died wishing they had a fighting chance, than died with an internal dialogue concerning entitlement.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:27 PM
 
5,153 posts, read 1,418,992 times
Reputation: 3182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckity View Post
Most likely.

My guess is that eventually it will come out that the attackers were Muslim.
First thing that entered my mind.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:28 PM
 
Location: AZ
2,074 posts, read 433,792 times
Reputation: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
First thing that entered my mind.
Of course it was.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:36 PM
 
12,642 posts, read 10,487,316 times
Reputation: 17437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
The bottom line is that you don't believe people should be able to carry a means of defence -you're advocating doing nothing, and then analysing the actions of the perpetrators once they've finished doing what they want .... if they survive.

I'm willing to bet that far more women died wishing they had a fighting chance, than died with an internal dialogue concerning entitlement.
I didn't say I don't believe people should be able to carry weapons, I'm just pointing out the flaws in thinking that having guns would have prevented or fixed the situation these women were in. You don't want to analyze whether or not having guns in their situations even would have helped.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,166 posts, read 13,708,375 times
Reputation: 5545
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I didn't say I don't believe people should be able to carry weapons, I'm just pointing out the flaws in thinking that having guns would have prevented or fixed the situation these women were in. You don't want to analyze whether or not having guns in their situations even would have helped.
There is no guaranteed safety when one is armed, only a fighting chance.

My guess is that the attackers felt empowered, knowing that their prey were very likely unarmed.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:35 PM
 
Location: California
1,287 posts, read 391,807 times
Reputation: 2255
I think that society needs to stop protecting these criminals just because theyíre under 18. The crimes being committed today by so called teens is outlandish. These thugs knew exactly what they were doing. Doubt it was the first time and probably wonít be the last theyíre brought up on charges.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:38 PM
 
5,153 posts, read 1,418,992 times
Reputation: 3182
Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru5555 View Post
Of course it was.
Yes, as a gay man, I'm very concerned about the infiltration of radical anti-gay thought being allowed to pour into Western civilization. Your bigotry is showing.
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