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See, that is why she should actually leave, and if she wants to date him, or give him another chance, she can. But, that is really the only way an "ultimatum" works. Leave, and say, if you want me back, change...but I am moving on with my life without you. That forces the alcoholic to actually face that things have changed, as a direct result of his behavior. Staying, and expecting change is not going to happen.
Well -- sometimes they do quit.
I know a guy who woke up from a 3-day coma in an ICU and he looked at the two IV's going into his arms and looked around the room and he said his first words were "oh sh*t", and he never drank after that.
Right, he quit...but not because any woman told him she was leaving.
He quit because he hit his own rock bottom. The only way addicts change. All addicts have their own "rock bottom" and it is different for everyone. I had a friend who went to jail for a DUI, one time, that was enough to make her go to AA, rehab, and she actually moved from Vegas, to change. But, the addict has to be the one to decide when, and why...
Honestly, you can't differentiate between casual social drinking and a person whose drinking to excess has clouded his thinking to the point he can't hold a job.
Makes me question why you're defensive.
You (and the OP) are postulating that there is a connection between the drinking and the job loss, when in fact, there is no evidence of this being the case. For a man that has a degree in accounting, who was told, essentially, that he didn't know what he was doing, makes me think that he SIMPLY DID NOT CARE, and that he was no happy doing this kind of work.
I have personally known a man who OWNED an accounting firm and was a raging drunk. It didn't stop him from doing a fine job with his client's accounts. I was the receptionist and you could hear the mixer make a "Pfffffft" sound every time he opened it to make himself a drink at work. And believe me that was very, very often.
Alcohol is a beverage just like any other. The difference being that it has the added benefit of making you feel good. In France, Italy and Germany, it is very customary to drink a glass of wine or beer with lunch and then go back to work.
I am not defensive. I will be the first to admit that I drink and enjoy it very much. What I am defensive about is people assuming you are an alcoholic just because you like to drink. There is a big difference between LIKE to drink and HAVE to drink.
Many people drink (and do drugs) because they are UNHAPPY. I do not consider these people addicts. I consider them people who are self-medicating. It is no different than getting a prescription for Zanax or Paxil or Prozac or any of the other hundreds of anti-depressants that are out there. I think this is the OP's husband's problem. He is not happy with his life and he is seeking out some pleasure from a bottle. It happens a lot and it does NOT MEAN HE IS AN ALCOHOLIC. It means he's freakin' miserable and he can't figure out any other way to fix it.
You (and the OP) are postulating that there is a connection between the drinking and the job loss, when in fact, there is no evidence of this being the case. For a man that has a degree in accounting, who was told, essentially, that he didn't know what he was doing, makes me think that he SIMPLY DID NOT CARE, and that he was no happy doing this kind of work.
I have personally known a man who OWNED an accounting firm and was a raging drunk. It didn't stop him from doing a fine job with his client's accounts. I was the receptionist and you could hear the mixer make a "Pfffffft" sound every time he opened it to make himself a drink at work. And believe me that was very, very often.
Alcohol is a beverage just like any other. The difference being that it has the added benefit of making you feel good. In France, Italy and Germany, it is very customary to drink a glass of wine or beer with lunch and then go back to work.
I am not defensive. I will be the first to admit that I drink and enjoy it very much. What I am defensive about is people assuming you are an alcoholic just because you like to drink. There is a big difference between LIKE to drink and HAVE to drink.
Many people drink (and do drugs) because they are UNHAPPY. I do not consider these people addicts. I consider them people who are self-medicating. It is no different than getting a prescription for Zanax or Paxil or Prozac or any of the other hundreds of anti-depressants that are out there. I think this is the OP's husband's problem. He is not happy with his life and he is seeking out some pleasure from a bottle. It happens a lot and it does NOT MEAN HE IS AN ALCOHOLIC. It means he's freakin' miserable and he can't figure out any other way to fix it.
20yrsinBranson
But, we don't know if the OP's husband is able to stop drinking, as we don't live with him. I don't think the OP indicated that he has tried before. She is the one who called him an alcoholic; we didn't assume anything. We do not have enough information to know either way.
And perhaps he started out self-medicating and became addicted to alcohol (which can be physically addictive). We just don't know.
Last edited by mochamajesty; 12-24-2011 at 11:38 AM..
Reason: Clarity
I agree with almost everything you said, except that a "functioning alcoholic" is a person who holds down a job and doesn't end up in jail or the ER. Not what you said. A functioning alcoholic can go out after work, drink into a black out, find his way home and crash on the floor. As long as he shows up for work the next day he is functioning. The functioning refers to his other life obligations not how drunk he gets.
Where did I say anything about it having to do with "how much" the person drinks just the fact most people wouldn't know this person is trashed, sometimes to a limited level, sometimes to a level that would kill the average person.
You (and the OP) are postulating that there is a connection between the drinking and the job loss, when in fact, there is no evidence of this being the case. For a man that has a degree in accounting, who was told, essentially, that he didn't know what he was doing, makes me think that he SIMPLY DID NOT CARE, and that he was no happy doing this kind of work.
I have personally known a man who OWNED an accounting firm and was a raging drunk. It didn't stop him from doing a fine job with his client's accounts. I was the receptionist and you could hear the mixer make a "Pfffffft" sound every time he opened it to make himself a drink at work. And believe me that was very, very often.
Alcohol is a beverage just like any other. The difference being that it has the added benefit of making you feel good. In France, Italy and Germany, it is very customary to drink a glass of wine or beer with lunch and then go back to work.
I am not defensive. I will be the first to admit that I drink and enjoy it very much. What I am defensive about is people assuming you are an alcoholic just because you like to drink. There is a big difference between LIKE to drink and HAVE to drink.
Many people drink (and do drugs) because they are UNHAPPY. I do not consider these people addicts. I consider them people who are self-medicating. It is no different than getting a prescription for Zanax or Paxil or Prozac or any of the other hundreds of anti-depressants that are out there. I think this is the OP's husband's problem. He is not happy with his life and he is seeking out some pleasure from a bottle. It happens a lot and it does NOT MEAN HE IS AN ALCOHOLIC. It means he's freakin' miserable and he can't figure out any other way to fix it.
20yrsinBranson
Your post tells me you have no experience with alcoholism or addictions.
There was no foot stamping or demanding. There was a calm discussion, with me letting him know where I stand. He agreed he had a problem, and HE got rid of everything. He asked me to be patient while he went through the withdrawal process. He told me I was more important to him than the alcohol and MJ. Until he gives me reason to doubt that, I will support him through this. I told him there would be no nagging. I also told him I have a ZERO tolerance policy as far as the alcohol and MJ goes, and if he loses the next job he gets, I am leaving. He understands, and I am giving him a chance. HOWEVER, I WILL follow through, and he knows that (because he knows I always followed through on my punishments for my kids). I am hoping for the best, and prepared for the worst.
What kind of recovery is he doing? If he just got rid of the substance, you still have the disease to deal with. This by no means is as simple as going "cold turkey". Eliminating the substance is only scratching the surface.
Where did I say anything about it having to do with "how much" the person drinks just the fact most people wouldn't know this person is trashed, sometimes to a limited level, sometimes to a level that would kill the average person.
Hahaha! You are confused. Where did I say . . that you said . . this is about "how much" a person drinks. I didn't say it. I said you were wrong to say that a "functioning alcoholic is one that people do not notice is drunk. You did say that and its wrong. A functioning alcoholic is an alcoholic who fulfills the basic life obligations such that he does not end up under a bridge, in jail, or in a hospital, or curled up in a ball in the basement.
Just wondering if it has ever worked for anyone? I have read articles that praised it and articles against it. My husband of three years is a functional alcoholic, and it took me until a year ago to realize that he had a problem. I would see him drink a beer or two, but never knew about all the others he drank in private. You cannot tell he is intoxicated other than that he gets very quiet and "aloof." For YEARS I kept thinking he was mad at me, and then I realized one day he was drunk. (He was in one of his quiet modes one evening and didn't remember a phone call with his sister.)
He has now lost THREE jobs in the three years we've been married, and I highly suspect that his addictions to alcohol and marijuana have a lot to do with it. His last employer told him he doesn't even know the basics of accounting (he has an advanced accounting degree). Last summer, he grew his own "weed" and I'm pretty sure he smokes it almost daily. He's 51 years old and every time he gets fired, he has a harder and harder time finding another job. If he doesn't get one and keep it, I fear our financial future is screwed. He has no retirement, no pension. I have both.
Is it unreasonable to tell him to either seek help or expect me to leave?
If I'm repeating someone I apologize.
An addict will never follow through with an ultimatum. Everytime you have issues or a problem they will just return to it. They seriously need to decide on their own that is what THEY want for themselves. Ultimatums do not typically work in the long run. Sometimes it makes it worse.
There is merit to a logical, calm and frank discussion on the matter, but if he is only doing it because you gave him an ultimatum it won't last.
A member of my family had some prescription medication issues and everyone was yelling and screaming at her daily and threatening her and it just made the situation twice as bad. I kicked everyone out of the house and sat down with her and had her explain how she saw things. She kept going back to blaming the marriage and such. I simply told her calmly, screw the marriage that may or may not survive - but you still have a child who needs a mother and where you're headed is having your child taken away from you and supervised visitation. You need to work on you first before you can work on the marriage. This actually worked and got her into rehab and her life changed completely and they are still together. This is the only experience I've had with the issue.
Well, whatever works. I was married to a drug addict, and manipulated many times over. Perhaps I am jaded and cynical. I wish you the best. But I still think it is BS. Either you leave or stay, don't kid yourself that you are giving him a chance...you are just not ready to really leave. I will bet my next pay check that he will "slide", and you will forgive him, and the drama will continue. Drug addicts don't change until they want to...and it is rarely for another person.
well said. Drinking in moderation is fine, not sure if thats case with OP...in AA they say its when your drinking causes you to "hit rock bottom"
Not everyone does and some can tolerate it. however if someone has car accidents, work issues and financial issues, they should look at their behavior. And no one needs to stay in a marriage like that, not today. It is far too damaging.
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