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So now you're in Djuna's head, too? Gee, you like to presume an awful lot.
Considering the disrespect she's already shown me, I think it fair to "presume" she's not inclined to pay me any respect, or at least that this desire is not a priority. And I saw no objection to the assumptions that I'm trying to control people's thoughts because I disagree with them, hmmm...
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Originally Posted by Yzette
If you have someone who shares your views, good for you. I have someone who shares mine. Dang straight that's what matters. Your opinion on what is right and wrong, and what partners should and should not think, with or without someone else attempting to control those thoughts, is irrelevant to my relationship. You can opine all you want, but in the grand scheme of things, it means absolutely nothing to anyone but you and perhaps your partner.
I'm afraid how much you value an opinion does not change its merit. If you'd like to discuss my arguments (the arguments themselves, not what you or others think is behind them), be my guest. You can start with my assertion that the essence of cheating is mental, not physical, or you can tackle any of the points I brought up concerning the risks of pornography in general (posts 54-64) which serve to justify a "controlling" person's objection to their SO viewing it.
It doesn't even matter to me whether I can call it a fantasy, so I won't bother with semantics. I'll just say my lady keeps me satisfied, no matter how close or far away she is
So are you saying that you never fantasize about anyone else other than your partner when you are doing......whatever?
And you think the same goes for her? Have you ever asked? Did you ever consider she may not be telling you the truth in order to save your feelings because she knows how you feel on the subject?
So are you saying that you never fantasize about anyone else other than your partner when you are doing......whatever?
Of course I don't. Why would I feel the need to? This is the question I've been asking all along, and the only semi-decent answer was "You might get bored with the image of just your girlfriend!" But I don't think that way. I'm in a committed relationship with this woman because that's who I want and it's ALL I want. If I wanted more, frankly, I wouldn't settle down at all. To thine own self be true, you know?
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88
And you think the same goes for her? Have you ever asked? Did you ever consider she may not be telling you the truth in order to save your feelings because she knows how you feel on the subject?
We live together, so I keep her apprised of what's being posted here. She always speaks strongly for monogamy and against pornography; she's actually quite conservative in comparison to me. She tells me pretty quickly when she disagrees with me on something! But I just asked her for the sake of this conversation and she said I could tell the inquiring minds that she thinks of me (if anyone, usually no one) and that's enough for her.
Now... Should I believe her? I'd have to be quite insecure, not to mention mistrusting of her personally AS WELL AS women in general to think that she'd lie about not doing this or that it can't be helped. Not to offend you, but I do think it's sad that you seem to doubt our ability to be true to one another in our thoughts as well as physically. I mean, sure, fleeting thoughts and dreams cannot be helped, and we've had a few of those to share with one another. But actively fantasizing about another person is, once more, the essence of cheating. She and I agree on that, and we consider ourselves normal (not amazing) people in this regard.
If porn objectifies women so much why are women beginning to buy it in record numbers ? I think it's more a generational thing to be honest. Older women seem to have more issues with it than girls my age or younger. Anyway we are all visual creatures, and it's impossible to believe you will only use your mate for your fantasies for your entire marriage.
well said...
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Originally Posted by darrensmooth
LMAO...
certain posters spend far too much time on this topic (well, rallying against it that is)..if it doesnt affect you personally, then your mind your business, thats what I say.
exactly...
I feel alot of people that have issues with porn have issues with themselves ( waits for the storm) and they need to ask themselves why they have an issue with it? Aside from religious issues..and so forth..
While there is proof of addiction and objectifying women there are lot of things that cause addiction besides PORN...it all depends on the person and the relationship...
I.E. Being married and having fidelity and monogamy is a must!!!! however having sex with your SO that consists of the missionary position all the time with no exploration or spicing things up is NO FUN!!!!
I personally cannot imagine being married to someone this sexually boring...
For some porn is a sexual outlet that does not involve physically cheating on their spouse..and because a SO cannot or will not engage in any new sexual activity...I feel horrible for individuals stuck in these ruts...
Porn can be used as a tool between a couple if they both agree...and this is okay imho...however if PORN is an issue with someone than strive to find someone whom HAS never watched it, has no desire to watch it and is happy with the sexual relationship that exists....
Otherwise? Porn is not all bad..my 2 cents...
Of course I don't. Why would I feel the need to? This is the question I've been asking all along, and the only semi-decent answer was "You might get bored with the image of just your girlfriend!" But I don't think that way. I'm in a committed relationship with this woman because that's who I want and it's ALL I want. If I wanted more, frankly, I wouldn't settle down at all. To thine own self be true, you know?
We live together, so I keep her apprised of what's being posted here. She always speaks strongly for monogamy and against pornography; she's actually quite conservative in comparison to me. She tells me pretty quickly when she disagrees with me on something! But I just asked her for the sake of this conversation and she said I could tell the inquiring minds that she thinks of me (if anyone, usually no one) and that's enough for her.
Now... Should I believe her? I'd have to be quite insecure, not to mention mistrusting of her personally AS WELL AS women in general to think that she'd lie about not doing this or that it can't be helped. Not to offend you, but I do think it's sad that you seem to doubt our ability to be true to one another in our thoughts as well as physically. I mean, sure, fleeting thoughts and dreams cannot be helped, and we've had a few of those to share with one another. But actively fantasizing about another person is, once more, the essence of cheating. She and I agree on that, and we consider ourselves normal (not amazing) people in this regard.
Well if you say so. For myself, It would be next to impossible to never fantasize about someone other than my SO. { I don't have an "SO" as of now, but I think I know my own mind well enough to be able to determine that }
Well if you say so. For myself, It would be next to impossible to never fantasize about someone other than my SO. { I don't have an "SO" as of now, but I think I know my own mind well enough to be able to determine that }
I'll have to de-cliche-ify (new word) what I was GOING to respond with. I'll just say different people can satisfy you to different degrees. Perhaps you just haven't seen the power of that kind of satisfaction? And I'll also add that when it comes to matters of the mind, a change of mind can bring about new capabilities. Someday you might surprise yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74
I feel alot of people that have issues with porn have issues with themselves ( waits for the storm) and they need to ask themselves why they have an issue with it? Aside from religious issues..and so forth..
You have to be fair, though. If those who are anti-porn shouldn't base their stance on what they just "feel" is true, neither should you. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I know I've given my reasons and that they have nothing to do with me personally or with religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74
While there is proof of addiction and objectifying women there are lot of things that cause addiction besides PORN...it all depends on the person and the relationship...
The same can be (and has been) said for alcohol abuse. But just because some people can handle it better than others, doesn't mean it can't eventually be harmful to them. I mentioned the addictiveness of pornography briefly (and gave an elaborate link on just how it works), but I don't put much emphasis on this point.
And also, the fact that there are a lot of OTHER things that can become addictions doesn't do anything to defend pornography.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74
I.E. Being married and having fidelity and monogamy is a must!!!! however having sex with your SO that consists of the missionary position all the time with no exploration or spicing things up is NO FUN!!!!
I personally cannot imagine being married to someone this sexually boring...
For some porn is a sexual outlet that does not involve physically cheating on their spouse..and because a SO cannot or will not engage in any new sexual activity...I feel horrible for individuals stuck in these ruts......
I must commend you for what's in bold. There are actually many who would disagree with even that.
But you just demonstrated how the viewing of pornography, under the guise of a simple "sexual outlet", is often a symptom of a bigger problem that needs fixing, not ignoring. Though it may provide the viewer with a temporary cure for sexual frustration, it is also diminishing his/her natural motivation to talk the problem (a "boring" sex life) out with their SO.
I'll have to de-cliche-ify (new word) what I was GOING to respond with. I'll just say different people can satisfy you to different degrees. Perhaps you just haven't seen the power of that kind of satisfaction? And I'll also add that when it comes to matters of the mind, a change of mind can bring about new capabilities. Someday you might surprise yourself.
You have to be fair, though. If those who are anti-porn shouldn't base their stance on what they just "feel" is true, neither should you. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I know I've given my reasons and that they have nothing to do with me personally or with religion. You are correct and I felt I was being fair..as well as objective..
There are many healthy couples that engage in watching pornography as a tool or for "fun" to spice things up.
I feel that if someone is comfortable in their sexuality then it should not be an issue but then again it is my opinion..
I know for some women and men alike their issue with porn is jealousy..feeling that their partner is watching this because he/she prefers to have sex with the "actors" ( I use this term very loosely)
or perhaps they are uncomfortable with some of the sexual acts displayed...
That becomes a "personal" issue an "insecurity" ...
The same can be (and has been) said for alcohol abuse. But just because some people can handle it better than others, doesn't mean it can't eventually be harmful to them. I mentioned the addictiveness of pornography briefly (and gave an elaborate link on just how it works), but I don't put much emphasis on this point. Let me state another example...Some women have issues with their SO's masturbating...they do not understand the need for their SO to engage in this perfectly healthy and normal act...
They automatically take this "personally" and feel that perhaps they are not enough for their "man" or perhaps their "man" is not satisfied with the sex they have...
This again is another example of personal issues and insecurities..
And also, the fact that there are a lot of OTHER things that can become addictions doesn't do anything to defend pornography. I was not defending porn, I was merely stating a fact.
Any "addiction" has its downfalls, this is a natural consequence...
So to say that Porn is the devil? I disagree..
I must commend you for what's in bold. There are actually many who would disagree with even that. Thank you
But you just demonstrated how the viewing of pornography, under the guise of a simple "sexual outlet", is often a symptom of a bigger problem that needs fixing, not ignoring. Though it may provide the viewer with a temporary cure for sexual frustration, it is also diminishing his/her natural motivation to talk the problem (a "boring" sex life) out with their SO.
It is not that complicated nor should Porn be seen as evil..
I disagree completely..
There are some couples that reach stagnancy in the relationship..
sexually speaking..
I.E.
There may be a couple that has no other issues other than the sex has become stale..one individual may state to the other "Hey, why don't we try something new?" The other partner may be prudish and not adventurous at all and decline the offer..
So while one partner may NEED something new and different and has stated their concern and their partner is unresponsive, should they get a divorce? Or should one try and spice things up? Perhaps trying to get the other to try something new that they saw in a porn? engage the other person in watching porn with them once in awhile?
You are correct and I felt I was being fair..as well as objective..
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74
There are many healthy couples that engage in watching pornography as a tool or for "fun" to spice things up.
Even that they are healthy couples is an assumption/speculation. This is not being objective. I wouldn't assume that viewing pornography is hurting, helping, or having no effect. I do point to the evidence that pornography has been known to cause adverse effects on the individual that could in turn harm them or society through them (Refer to the conversation in posts 54-64). Considering the variety and nature of the risks, and that a couple can truly "spice things up" any number of other ways, I think it irresponsible and extremely single-minded to view it at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74
I feel that if someone is comfortable in their sexuality then it should not be an issue but then again it is my opinion.. I know for some women and men alike their issue with porn is jealousy..feeling that their partner is watching this because he/she prefers to have sex with the "actors" ( I use this term very loosely) or perhaps they are uncomfortable with some of the sexual acts displayed... That becomes a "personal" issue an "insecurity" ...
This is what I've been challenging, though. To call these people insecure, there must be some sort of logic. My logic in defending them is simply that when a person watches pornography (particularly if they are masturbating to it), they are in effect choosing the person(s) on screen over their SO. No matter how temporary or that it's all mental, not physical, this other person is becoming their source for sexual satisfaction. It's the essence of cheating, once more. I'd also add that the common cliche from those who DON'T mind ("It's not like they'll ever meet that person and get together") does not soothe the jealous person; this suggests that it is not insecurity at all. In actuality, that the viewer and the porn star will never meet is ever a factor in one's mind, suggests the makings of insecurity in the minds of those who provide this cliche.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74
Let me state another example...Some women have issues with their SO's masturbating...they do not understand the need for their SO to engage in this perfectly healthy and normal act... They automatically take this "personally" and feel that perhaps they are not enough for their "man" or perhaps their "man" is not satisfied with the sex they have... This again is another example of personal issues and insecurities..
In this case, it depends on the couple's story. If the two do not have the same kind of sexual appetite (this is why I often suggest that people become sexually active long before they get legally married), it can cause sexual frustration in one of them. This should be discussed between the two, openly and honestly. But of course, the difference between just masturbating and doing it to pornography is that you are not choosing another person over your SO. Indeed, you could fantasize about your SO in the process!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74
I was not defending porn, I was merely stating a fact. Any "addiction" has its downfalls, this is a natural consequence... So to say that Porn is the devil? I disagree..
Okay, well I'm not saying porn is the devil. I'm saying the variety and nature of the risks make it a bad idea for people in general. But what are YOU saying, what is the point behind your fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74
There may be a couple that has no other issues other than the sex has become stale..one individual may state to the other "Hey, why don't we try something new?" The other partner may be prudish and not adventurous at all and decline the offer.. So while one partner may NEED something new and different and has stated their concern and their partner is unresponsive, should they get a divorce? Or should one try and spice things up? Perhaps trying to get the other to try something new that they saw in a porn? engage the other person in watching porn with them once in awhile?
I wonder how many women who are too "prudish" to "try something new" in general would agree to watching pornography of all things. Seems to me that a prude would be more willing to try a different sexual position or something than approve of their SO watching other women naked. Not to share too much, but my girlfriend and I have more than a couple things in our repertoire and are adamantly against pornography.
A man/woman shouldn't have to do things that are seen in pornography to save their marriage. This is cited as one of the many cons to pornography, that it creates unrealistic expectations in people in the real world, and that it desensitizes people to ordinary sex acts that naturally provide satisfaction. Plus, where do you draw the line? If a man's basing his expectations on a porn video, what's to say he won't eventually ask his SO to have a threesome (which again, many people are saying is "Ok")?
Better for such a couple to sit down and talk about what's hurting their sex life in the first place. Chances are, it has to do with stress or loss of feeling (romance, passion) in the relationship itself. You don't need pornography to come up with new positions or concepts anyway. If anything, watching pornography might make the sex life even more robotic, as you're merely copying what you see on screen rather than getting creative. But I digress
I think I asked this before, but why exactly do you care about what other people are doing in their own private life?..why are you so passionate about this subject? If every single porn viewer were in fact cheating on their wives/husbands whatever..how would this affect YOU and YOUR relationship, if you aren't cheating (or your GF) and doing/living your own life?
I think I asked this before, but why exactly do you care about what other people are doing in their own private life?..why are you so passionate about this subject? If every single porn viewer were in fact cheating on their wives/husbands whatever..how would this affect YOU and YOUR relationship, if you aren't cheating (or your GF) and doing/living your own life?
If you have asked me that before, chances are I've told you this before:
What people do (even in their own private life) is a reflection of how they think, and how they think affects the society they interact with albeit indirectly, not to mention what they teach their kids. Pornography isn't the only thing that influences people; people do it too, even if they don't intend to.
I'm no more "passionate" about this than I am about lazy parenting, abortion, racism, gay rights, or my right to tell someone I don't believe in a god without being told I'm going to hell. People want to argue a lot about this, and to them, I might ask "Why?" as well.
The above should be enough info on me. I don't think it will ever help us better understand the topic of this thread, though...
Last edited by Vic 2.0; 01-27-2012 at 12:28 PM..
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