Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And your other posts explaining your thinking that it is hurtful that if she really thinks you're special, but she gives sex to a guy who isn't, and not to you...
Also this:
OK I have grown up feeling the EXACT OPPOSITE my whole life. Men can pursue whatever they want and they're golden, but a woman? If she isn't doing exactly what any given particular man wants her to do, bring on the name calling, shame her right into the ground, she's clearly a horrible person and should not be entrusted with the vajayjay the good lord gave her, by golly. If it's not being judged for one thing it's being judged for another.
And one of the more frequent ones? We aren't supposed to like sex for its own sake. Or rather, we're supposed to pretend as hard as we can, that we don't. We are not "that kind of girl!" Only if paid for with emotional and commitment currency, are we then allowed to like sex. Except that men complain about that. So then what? And now it's all "sex positivity" and owning our own pleasure and stuff. Who knows what we're supposed to be doing? I don't. But if I met a man I really liked and really wanted to have a longterm relationship with, I certainly would consider taking everything really slow, because if I gave it up to him, he'd probably be like "Yay, score! Easy chick! OK, I'm outta here." Whereas the guy who is hot but not a good candidate for a LTR for some reason? Yeah, who cares if he hits it and quits it? Who cares what his judgment or opinion is? He'll be gone eventually anyhow most likely, there is no relationship there.
This is what I want you to understand, jgn2013, in particular. There is always a chance that a woman who makes a man wait, simply cares about HIS opinion of her. And doesn't want HIM to think she's "easy" (or worse words.)
We've had it hammered into our brains over a lifetime that if you give it up too quick, you ought to expect the guy to not respect you, think you are girlfriend material, or want to stick around. So what this whole scenario should say, is she cares about the opinion of one guy, but not the other.
However, she didn't care enough about his opinion, to craft her entire life around it...merely enough to craft THEIR INTERACTION around it.
Now where I go in a very different direction from the woman in the original story here, is that I believe in a lot of disclosure. I think that any potential partners of mine should be giving INFORMED consent, so that means that before we get frisky, he's going to have some idea of my sexual and relationship history, both longterm, and recent. And if I were so worried about the guy thinking I'm too easy, I probably would not have done the FWB thing at all. Gotta walk your talk after all. Instead of saying "I'm not that kind of girl" she more honestly should have said "I want something more than casual with you. I've been casual with guys when I didn't care about them, but I see more than that with you and your opinion matters, which is why I feel like I need to give this some time before we hop in bed together. I want your respect." That would be the more honest thing to say. Or maybe, more likely for me personally, "I should make you aware that I have a FWB, I don't see as being relationship material, but my feeling about me and you is more along the lines of wanting to have a relationship...rather than something casual. But when I'm building a relationship, I prefer to take some time before bringing sex into it. Are you comfortable with this, or no?" And let him decide if he can hang, or if he can't.
It's like talking about sexual health matters, which a lot of people in the overall dating world don't bother to do, I've noticed, before you become intimate. I've always felt like so many people in the world like to go about dating just assuming things, because wow, actually communicating is so awkward, and then when it blows up in their faces being all wronged and mad about it.
as usual only a seeing the women's side of the situation never the man's. Some men want women who never had to change so the could be trusted to stay faithful.
So once you're looking for LTR, you say 'bye to your FWB? That may be what YOU do, but that is not a "rule" you can make for anyone else. And your assumptions are your assumptions. OP (and you) apparently like to keep things "loose" just in case - you don't bring up exclusivity but reserve the right to get ticked off, especially if you aren't "seksing" anyone else. Jealousy is not pretty. You're the same type that gets mad if you find out your gf was out doing something when you were on a break - sorry, doesn't work like that. "Put a ring on it", metaphorically speaking in terms of exclusivity if that's what you want.
There are assumptions on your part in there wouldn't you say? If you are wondering those things all you need to do is ask me and I'll clarify as best I can.
Then you go a step further and actually make a judgement. "You're the same type that .... " ? And the mention of jealousy? Care to explain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
If it is THAT important to you then bring it up and discuss it - don't throw a fit after the fact. Not everyone is like you or thinks like you and they don't have to to. Adults need to stop assuming.
You said adults need to stop assuming! After all those assumptions above!
And here you mention bringing it up and discussing it. Like you didn't do before making those assumptions and judgements above. And you said "Be an ADULT." Ok then, let's discuss these things like adults.
If you find something I say to be at odds with what you think, then discuss it it with me. Just ask for clarification. Maybe I expressed myself poorly (which I am prone to do) or I might have been expressing a hypothetical aspect or something (also poorly). Maybe you have a viewpoint that I can learn from. But just discuss it. That's why we are here.
And by the way, as much as I sympathise with the OP's girl, I still think she made a bad mistake and that the OP's reaction was understandable. That's not an assumption, that's my personal opinion or feeling (not necessarily shared by the rest of humanity). I know I would be pissed under the same circumstances. I'm not sure what I would do about it though. I would probably sex someone else for a while then get over it and carry on. I think I would take her at face value, for what she is worth.
Half the posts say she already had the FWB before she started up with the hopeful.
The other half say she started a new FWB after she met the hopeful.
Which is it?
She started the FWB after she started dating the LTR guy.
I absolutely have known sex workers of various persuasions who are still particular.
Especially if they feel unsafe in some way.
Granted, probably the most desperate street junkie types are less likely to do so. But the women who work for the brothels in Nevada have the right to say no, and occasionally exercise that. But in "sex workers" I also include: Strippers, Camgirls, Porn actresses, pro Dommes, etc.
The one I know most closely, have a strong friendship with, is a pro Domme. Now you'd think that there wouldn't be much danger from submissive men wanting to be beaten, and you'd be wrong. Some of these guys bring whole new definition to words like "clinger" and "stalker" for instance. She is very careful in her vetting of new clients. She has to be.
And regular women who just enjoy sex and don't worry about numbers or demand commitment necessarily? Not only have I been there, and done that, I know many women that some men would judge for being "easy"--Thing is, they are only easy to men they want. Not easy to just anyone. And I've known plenty of women to go through a life phase where casual sex worked for them, only to later end up being faithful to one man. I think that some guys cannot separate what one DOES from what one IS. It really isn't that difficult to decide to change what you're doing in life, when your circumstances point you in a different direction. At least, if you're the kind of person who takes ownership of their choices and actions.
Of course absent rape any woman can say no regardless of precedent, even a hooker. I've rarely seen any western person dispute that notion. I'm just sayin...if a hooker says no to you, you must be undesirable on a whole other level. Only thing worse would be rejection by one of those sex robots.
Of course absent rape any woman can say no regardless of precedent, even a hooker. I've rarely seen any western person dispute that notion. I'm just sayin...if a hooker says no to you, you must be undesirable on a whole other level. Only thing worse would be rejection by one of those sex robots.
Usually it means they find you unsafe, not undesirable. Some dudes have a scary vibe to 'em. A woman who is willing to have sex for money isn't looking to get beaten, stalked or killed...they have to try and be gut-smart to survive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screami
as usual only a seeing the women's side of the situation never the man's. Some men want women who never had to change so the could be trusted to stay faithful.
So you figure that a woman can be trusted to be faithful because she has limited or no experience, or has not had FWB's or something? lol! People is people. Not being a cheater, I can't tell you exactly what brings a woman to cross that line, but I'm guessing it usually has to do with being kind of ready to move on from the relationship but not having a good grasp on how to exit gracefully without another dude waiting there to catch her up. Most instances of cheating I've known involved people who really weren't happy at home on some level. Not people who simply had more experience, or were used to having FWB's before the relationship, or who really just like sex. Those sorts, if they want to have more than one partner, usually shoot for casual or open relationships and just keep it on the level.
A woman (or man) can be a virgin before the relationship, and still cheat later on.
Also, given as how men seem to not understand why a woman would act in such a way with a man she finds special, yeah, I was speaking to the woman's side of the situation and not the man's. Why would you think I don't see the man's side of it? Since you and others wave that flag nonstop, we cannot HELP but see your side of it. Not that every man has the same view, of course. As it happens, I usually don't make a man wait just because I want a relationship with him, but I was trying to explain to guys here what the mentality behind that behavior might be.
By all means you, and "some men" are ABUNDANTLY welcome to want whatever you want and seek whatever you seek. Or don't. The experienced ladies of this world are not pining your absence.
My point was "why would women do this?" and "here is the likely reason" logic.
Guys who complain about women being too picky or selective or making it difficult for them to get sex, love or relationships...yet also judge women who are "easy" like a guy, or too experienced... Those things go hand in hand. If getting what you wanted was as easy as you wanted it to be, then all the women would be ho's in your eyes and you STILL wouldn't be happy. ("You" being men, as though there was a hive mind, which there is NOT.) The issue is when people take in messages from members of the opposite sex as though putting together a manifesto of "what men/women think" and then wow, look...it's contradictory! Yeah, because you want this, but he wants that, and the other guy wants something else. A woman can be shaping her behavior towards Bob from the attitudes, judgments, or failures she experienced with Jim last year. And Jim might not be a prior partner, he could be a boy she liked or her Dad or her pastor. Humans give other humans confusing messages all the time. Your own feelings and motivations aren't the center of the whole universe, she's reacting to her own life experience, too. Don't like that? Buy a sex doll. Because even a virgin is not a blank slate.
God, this forum makes me so glad I've stepped off the silly little social treadmill of circular misery. Relating with more open minded human beings who aren't slaves to "the norm" is such a breath of fresh air, I tell ya.
Anyways, though, I'd judge this woman more on the case of not being honest, rather than whatever her sex and relationship habits are. Not telling him about the FWB before they became sexually involved was a bad move. A person should have such information in making their sexual and romantic choices, plain and simple.
Usually it means they find you unsafe, not undesirable. Some dudes have a scary vibe to 'em. A woman who is willing to have sex for money isn't looking to get beaten, stalked or killed...they have to try and be gut-smart to survive.
So you figure that a woman can be trusted to be faithful because she has limited or no experience, or has not had FWB's or something? lol! People is people. Not being a cheater, I can't tell you exactly what brings a woman to cross that line, but I'm guessing it usually has to do with being kind of ready to move on from the relationship but not having a good grasp on how to exit gracefully without another dude waiting there to catch her up. Most instances of cheating I've known involved people who really weren't happy at home on some level. Not people who simply had more experience, or were used to having FWB's before the relationship, or who really just like sex. Those sorts, if they want to have more than one partner, usually shoot for casual or open relationships and just keep it on the level.
A woman (or man) can be a virgin before the relationship, and still cheat later on.
Also, given as how men seem to not understand why a woman would act in such a way with a man she finds special, yeah, I was speaking to the woman's side of the situation and not the man's. Why would you think I don't see the man's side of it? Since you and others wave that flag nonstop, we cannot HELP but see your side of it. Not that every man has the same view, of course. As it happens, I usually don't make a man wait just because I want a relationship with him, but I was trying to explain to guys here what the mentality behind that behavior might be.
By all means you, and "some men" are ABUNDANTLY welcome to want whatever you want and seek whatever you seek. Or don't. The experienced ladies of this world are not pining your absence.
My point was "why would women do this?" and "here is the likely reason" logic.
Guys who complain about women being too picky or selective or making it difficult for them to get sex, love or relationships...yet also judge women who are "easy" like a guy, or too experienced... Those things go hand in hand. If getting what you wanted was as easy as you wanted it to be, then all the women would be ho's in your eyes and you STILL wouldn't be happy. ("You" being men, as though there was a hive mind, which there is NOT.) The issue is when people take in messages from members of the opposite sex as though putting together a manifesto of "what men/women think" and then wow, look...it's contradictory! Yeah, because you want this, but he wants that, and the other guy wants something else. A woman can be shaping her behavior towards Bob from the attitudes, judgments, or failures she experienced with Jim last year. And Jim might not be a prior partner, he could be a boy she liked or her Dad or her pastor. Humans give other humans confusing messages all the time. Your own feelings and motivations aren't the center of the whole universe, she's reacting to her own life experience, too. Don't like that? Buy a sex doll. Because even a virgin is not a blank slate.
God, this forum makes me so glad I've stepped off the silly little social treadmill of circular misery. Relating with more open minded human beings who aren't slaves to "the norm" is such a breath of fresh air, I tell ya.
Anyways, though, I'd judge this woman more on the case of not being honest, rather than whatever her sex and relationship habits are. Not telling him about the FWB before they became sexually involved was a bad move. A person should have such information in making their sexual and romantic choices, plain and simple.
Quit lying if I wouldn't have brought it up you would have never mentioned it. Men are tired of these fake women and we won't get anywhere by keeping our mouth shut.
Quit lying if I wouldn't have brought it up you would have never mentioned it. Men are tired of these fake women and we won't get anywhere by keeping our mouth shut.
If you are even being serious, I have no idea what you're talking about. Lying about what?
And the only "fake" thing I've seen is that the woman in the OP decided to not tell him that he wasn't the only one involved in her sex life at that time. That is a serious breach of trust and bad ethics all around. Just from a sexual health standpoint, she messed up bigtime denying him the information he needed to make sound, informed-consent choices. I'd say that goes beyond "fake."
Now if you're trying to say that a woman who has enjoyed sex freely in the past, and later chooses to be faithful to one is somehow just being "fake"...you're really taking this down a weird path, and I'd point out that I don't think you've got the depth of experience really understanding female psychology to make that call in an objectively true fashion. But you will think what you like. As I said, your decision to judge experienced women and flounce yourself away and insist that men in general are just like you, really carries no particular weight with me.
You do not keep your mouth shut about your grievances, care to tell me exactly where you are "getting" with that?
But as I always say...your life man, you do you.
You don't seem that happy though. So I know who, from my yardstick in life, is winning here.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Care to explain?
