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I think you people may be lying, you have a zero percent fear of dying and going to Hell? Yeah right, I bet it's higher than zero percent, you'll never admit it though. Also, I have to say, I know the video I put up is trying to scare people into converting to Christianity out of fear-mongering of the unknown(Death), but the music was kind of creepy, I'll admit.
Sorry you poll didn't go the way you wanted, but at this point 0% are afraid of hell.
I can only speak for myself, but I suspect it will explain the reasoning of many. As atheists we cannot be afraid of hell, for hell is just one of the many ancient superstitions that we don't believe in.
Do you fear things you view as irrational? That is exactly how I view the concept of hell, so irrational a concept that I can't even consider it.
Dying is inevitable, and to spend time fearing the inevitable is such a self depreciating activity. Dwelling on it is the surrender to fear that serves no purpose other than to feed on itself, but that does seem to be what christians enjoy, fear.
I looked at the poll results and think some of you are lying about your fear of death and being dishonest. I think some of you, on your deathbeds, will be terrified of dying and possibly going to some form of Hell. You don't fear it now, but I have a feeling some of you will eventually. I can't verify this, but it's my opinion.
You are projecting your own irrational fears, and the fact others don't share your fears irritates you, for misery loves company, and you find yourself alone in the misery of your fear.
Oh for goodness sake, don't ask a question if you are then going to turn around and berate us for our answers because they don't fit in with your pre-conceived views.
We are atheists, we don't believe in god, we don't believe in your bible/koroa/holy book and we sure as h*ll don't fret over your hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abf5000
There is no need to get nasty or call me ''Delusional'' because of my personal spirituality.
Djuna did not call you delusional, but you seem to have the delusion that they did. Perhaps you are not delusional, but you have lost your perspective.
I'm not an atheist. But I know hell exists. It's right here on earth. And sometimes it frightens me, the things that go on here in hell. I'm glad that we don't have to spend 'forever' in hell.
You're correct about hell only exists here, but only for those that create their own hell. Life is to short to spend in a hell of your own creation.
There is 'enough' proof for christianity. I understand there are enough questions, but there are enough evidence to show it potentially could be true.
Really? Could you adumbrate some of it for me? I have been asking for it for over 18 years now and no one has given me a shred of it.
A lot of people, like yourself, have SAID there is evidence. I could be rich if I had a dollar for every person who SAID there is evidence. When it actually comes to saying what any of it is however.... they shut up and run for the hills.
However on the subject of the thread what a lot of psychologists have shown is that we are more likely to believe something someone says if they "scare" us first. This is therefore one of the likely reasons for the "hell" idea. If you can scare your "mark" with that idea, then they are likely to accept the rest of your ploy for emotional rather than intellectual reasons.
Religion has evolved well to take advantages of quirky of the human mind(set).
Quote:
Originally Posted by abf5000
I think you people may be lying, you have a zero percent fear of dying and going to Hell? Yeah right, I bet it's higher than zero percent
I would not know how to begin rating an idea in terms of percentages. However I can do it in terms of comparison. I have as much fear of hell after death as I have of.... say.... a green with pink pokka dots Volkwagen Beetle materialising 5 metres over my head sometime later today and falling upon me causing me great injury, pain and maybe death.
Both seem just as likely to me. I have just as much evidence that one will happen as the other too. That is: "None".
If you want to turn that into a % then go right ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abf5000
you wouldn't feel nervous about dying at all? If you say no, you are lying.
I am quite nervous about the PROCESS of dying. I imagine in many cases it is quite painful and I do not look forward to it one iota.
The actual fear of being dead however I have none of and this is quite a different thing to "dying" so do not mix the two up.
It bothers me not a jot. I was "dead" a long time before I was conceived and it did not inconvenience one jot then, so I imagine it would not inconvenience me a single iota when I am just as non existent after death.
I am not so sure about the tactic of asking questions on a forum however and declaring that if people do not give you the answer you want that they must be "lying". Why ask a question at all if your position is so fundamentalist that any answer contrary to the one you want must be "lies"? You reveal your biases all too readily here.
If anyone on this thread is not being honest it is the ones that say "Answer if you like, but any answer other than the one I want to hear is lies". Namely: You.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abf5000
You don't give any credit to the good religion has done for us.
That may be because I am totally unaware of any "good" it has done for us. Certainly none that could not have been done just as readily in the absence of religion. Maybe you can adumbrate some of the "good" you are talking about here.
I am however painfully aware at how skilled it has become at associating itself with "goods" what were done without it and making it seem like it somehow helped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abf5000
You also deny that the atrocities committed by Atheists like Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao Zedong had anything to do with Atheism.
Entirely off topic to the thread, but anyway, of course we do, given you have not established a causal link between the two at all. Once. Ever.
If you can not establish a causal link that X caused Y then of course we will deny that there is any reason to think X caused Y. Why would we not???
We again seem to be drifting off topic. It's about whether atheists ever really worry about Hell. Instead for some reason we get a preachfest with a mix of reason why Christianity is true combined with a list of reasons why atheism is nasty.
The overwhelming result of the poll is that atheists hardly bother about hell - claims at all. So maybe there is room to refute the claims for Christianity.
They are simple. There is not a shred of sound evidence that the claims are true. The great atrocity count does nothing to make it true. The appeals to all the 'good' Christianity has done does not make it true. The appeals to the Bible add up to no more than appeals to independent historians. None of those provide a smidgeon of worthwhile evidence for Christianity, much less the idea of hellfire.
And I'll remind the believers that Christians themselves debate fiercely over whether there is a hell or not. They can't even agree on that which at least should be bloody obvious if the Bible could be relied upon for anything except an object lesson in special pleading.
The hell debate is interesting since there are two agendas at work but since Christians cannot see their own bias, they won't recognize that.
The ones who don't believe in Hell can see the Problem of evil. It looks bad, let's face it. It makes God look like a sadistic maniac. So let's get rid of it, ok?
On the other hand the others might subconsciously see that removing the hell - threat raises the question 'what's to worry about, then?' Which is exactly the atheist position on an afterlife which might exist though there isn't any good evidence for one.
Then we get this attempt to have the best of both the arguments with the 'separation from God' compromise. I love this one.
But the fact is that it gets more problems from both sides of the argument than it gains..sorry, I mean 'loses', of course. On one hand, if 'separation from God' involves some unpleasant sensations for eternity it's a hell - threat of a kind, no matter there aren't any hot coals and pitchforks involved.
On the other hand, if separation from God doesn't make things any more unpleasant for us than -say - they are when we're alive, why should we worry?
And that's perhaps why the poll is so overwhelmingly 'no worries', and the failure of Christians to be rational about it might explain why some cannot comprehend that we could be other than terrified to weeing down our boots at the fear of the barbeque to come and assume that we must all be lying.
Just keep the self - deceit going, believers.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-03-2011 at 02:52 AM..
We again seem to be drifting off topic. It's about whether atheists ever really worry about Hell. Instead for some reason we get a preachfest with a mix of reason why Christianity is true combined with a list of reasons why atheism is nasty.
The overwhelming result of the poll is that atheists hardly bother about hell - claims at all. So maybe there is room to refute the claims for Christianity.
They are simple. There is not a shred of sound evidence that the claims are true. The great atrocity count does nothing to make it true. The appeals to all the 'good' Christianity has done does not make it true. The appeals to the Bible add up to no more than appeals to independent historians. None of those provide a smidgeon of worthwhile evidence for Christianity, much less the idea of hellfire.
And I'll remind the believers that Christians themselves debate fiercely over whether there is a hell or not. They can't even agree on that which at least should be bloody obvious if the Bible could be relied upon for anything except an object lesson in special pleading.
The hell debate is interesting since there are two agendas at work but since Christians cannot see their own bias, they won't recognize that.
The ones who don't believe in Hell can see the Problem of evil. It looks bad, let's face it. It makes God look like a sadistic maniac. So let's get rid of it, ok?
On the other hand the others might subconsciously see that removing the hell - threat raises the question 'what's to worry about, then?' Which is exactly the atheist position on an afterlife which might exist though there isn't any good evidence for one.
Then we get this attempt to have the best of both the arguments with the 'separation from God' compromise. I love this one.
But the fact is that it gets more problems from both sides of the argument than it gains..sorry, I mean 'loses', of course. On one hand, if 'separation from God' involves some unpleasant sensations for eternity it's a hell - threat of a kind, no matter there aren't any hot coals and pitchforks involved.
On the other hand, if separation from God doesn't make things any more unpleasant for us than -say - they are when we're alive, why should we worry?
And that's perhaps why the poll is so overwhelmingly 'no worries', and the failure of Christians to be rational about it might explain why some cannot comprehend that we could be other than terrified to weeing down our boots at the fear of the barbeque to come and assume that we must all be lying.
Just keep the self - deceit going, believers.
Excellent post. The one thing which always bugged me about the concept of Hell is that you are supposed to live in terror of this eventuality even if you are a decent human being but just happen to be an Atheist, etc...
So many Christians who seem to claim their religion is about love , that their deity is a benevolent and loving Father in the same breath will condemn you to "Hell" because you are not falling in line with their beliefs.
Now correct me if I am wrong but exactly how benevolent a God would one be if he condemned the good to Hell simply because they did not have religious beliefs ?!?!?
How arrogant and self centered a supernatural creature to think that unless one worships you and accepts your "truth" you shall then be deemed to be in essence evil and sent to this terrible place which makes Helmand Province look like a pleasure beach.
One cannot be scared of something one does not believe in but I feel also that philosophically speaking, a God which demands such constant attention, adoration, adulation, congratulation, worshipping and is so navel gazing really might not be the best role model for us mere mortals ? I think a more balanced individual might be called for, someone we could respect and not fear.
Why would anyone believe that a Creator would punish them for making decisions based on rationality and common sense, and a heartfelt lack of belief if that person is also leading a good and decent life and being "good" in their daily life ?
That to me makes about as much sense as all the rest of it. None, Nada, Zilch, Rien,Nichts.
Hell is exactly what it says on the tin, an extreme case of social manipulation and mass social blackmail dreamt up by people who needed to control the populace.
Keeping people in terror and fear for the eternal souls is simply an admission of failure that you could not get humans to behave any other way. Humans are all imperfect and make mistakes but also scarily have this innate ability to question and challenge the status quo ( well some of us anyway) and that to any elite religious or not is so darn scary they had to come up with a cunning plan to keep us trembling in our little booties, shaking at the tought of the man with cloven hooves, horns and a pitchfork... Satan truly is boogeyman extraordinaire.
Just like parents who have no control over their kids and promise them candy ( Heaven) if they are good and having their TV viewing rights revoked ( Hell).
We are being treated like petulant toddlers which to me is saying God has failed with his "creation". If he/she can't deal with us with retionality and explains things like a good parent does then his parenting skills leave a lot to be desired. I have never had much respect for parents who do not answer their children's questions, openly and honestly.
He controls us with fear rather than respect which says a lot. Shiny baubles to dance to his tune or the whip for us ?!?! I remain baffled.
If our "creator" really cannot accept other points of view and respect us for who we are even when we try to be our best, religious or not then quite frankly he/she has some serious issues .
Respect is earned and is a two way street. I see little of that in any religion on the whole. Seems like a one way system to me and more of a monologue.
Hell is another morality fable dreamt up to keep us toeing the line. Nothing more than social manipulation at its very worst. At least Aesop's fables were beautifully written, witty and extremely clever.
Last edited by Mooseketeer; 08-03-2011 at 06:12 AM..
From what I learn from Christians when you get into the whole "Why did he allow sin in the first place?"
Why wasn't he happy with the perfect Adam and Eve and garden?
It appears that he wants to be a savior.
There isn't anything to be saved from unless you're a sinner.
Sorta like poisoning you so I can give you the antidote I have.
Now that makes sense.....uh...doesn't it?
I think you people may be lying, you have a zero percent fear of dying and going to Hell? Yeah right, I bet it's higher than zero percent, you'll never admit it though. Also, I have to say, I know the video I put up is trying to scare people into converting to Christianity out of fear-mongering of the unknown(Death), but the music was kind of creepy, I'll admit.
Prove to me you're not afraid of Frank the "Donnie Darko" bunny and I'll prove to you that I'm not afraid of Hell.
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