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Old 03-27-2008, 05:09 AM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,828,923 times
Reputation: 18992

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
The only thing worse than whining is gloating...You got lucky. Good for you. Not everyone has been as fortunate.
Ummm, I didn't think that post was particularly gloating. But I will agree he is probably a lucky person.Hey, you can get lucky too. Want to know how people get lucky?

Read his post again. Reconsider the parts you found so insulting.

"Unlucky" people read such a post, searching for reasons to feel insulted. They get defensive and start griping about gloating. Let's face it, there isn't much gloating going on in that post with the possible exception of saying he did "all the right things." Sure, he could have said some right things... but be honest. Doesn't that seem a little petty?

"Lucky" people read the same post but what they pay attention to is that someone is trying to reach out and give practical tips. If you look again, you will see a lot of useful ideas. Lucky people see if there's anything in there they can use.

Yes, things happen in life that are beyond our control. People get bad breaks all the time, and if you've had a lifetime of bad breaks his helpful advice might be useless for you. In that case, you have my sympathy. But the way you respond to things makes a big difference, too.

I hope someday you become more lucky.

Last edited by normie; 03-27-2008 at 05:43 AM..
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Old 03-27-2008, 05:40 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,142,944 times
Reputation: 9518
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
EVERYBODY can retire by age 65 if they actually manage their lives with a semblance of common sense during their working lives.

.
Absurd. Myopic. We are not all given the same opportunities. There are health problems, divorces, kid problems (oh wait, maybe you don't have kids!) lay offs, contract cancellations, law suits, market collapses, and an endless number of things that can take everything you have worked all of your lifetime to accumulate in an instant. Thank God you have made it to a comfortable place. Many have not.

Last edited by Bideshi; 03-27-2008 at 05:50 AM..
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Old 03-27-2008, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,492 posts, read 51,392,857 times
Reputation: 24613
Economic life is a game of Slides and Ladders with a lot more slides than ladders and a few get home free cards. The lucky consider themselves to be frugal and skilled while disparaging the less fortunate as lazy and stupid. Considering the fortunate designed the rigged game this is not surprising.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,685 posts, read 49,462,974 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Economic life is a game of Slides and Ladders with a lot more slides than ladders and a few get home free cards. The lucky consider themselves to be frugal and skilled while disparaging the less fortunate as lazy and stupid. Considering the fortunate designed the rigged game this is not surprising.


So the "lucky" save 20% of their income and invest it, for the purpose of "disparaging" others?

And by for-going new cars and vacations, we are "designing" a "rigged game" against the others?
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:53 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,142,944 times
Reputation: 9518
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
So the "lucky" save 20% of their income and invest it, for the purpose of "disparaging" others?

And by for-going new cars and vacations, we are "designing" a "rigged game" against the others?
!!? I drive a '92 minivan and haven't had a vacation in five years, though I've been sent to Iraq and Kosovo and Saudi and Africa in that period. I'm beginning to suspect we don't have enough in common to construct a meaningful discourse.

Last edited by Bideshi; 03-27-2008 at 08:04 AM..
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,685 posts, read 49,462,974 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
!!? I drive a '92 minivan and haven't had a vacation in five years, though I've been sent to Iraq and Kosovo and Saudi and Africa in that period. I'm beginning to suspect we don't have enough in common to construct a meaningful discourse.
I am a military retiree. I have been to Kosovo as well. Though I spent most of my career North [in and around, underneath the Arctic circle].

I was referring to the "Economic life is a game of Slides and Ladders", and "the fortunate designed the rigged game" comment.

We collected apartment buildings at most of our duty stations, my Dw operated businesses out of our homes, and when I retired I had 90 days of leave on the books.

I do understand the economics of servicemembers.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:37 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,142,944 times
Reputation: 9518
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
I am a military retiree. I have been to Kosovo as well. Though I spent most of my career North [in and around, underneath the Arctic circle].
.
I stand corrected; please accept my apologies and thank you for your service. Actually, I'm a contractor which is why I haven't had a vacation (and can't look forward to any VA benefits in retirement).

Last edited by Bideshi; 03-27-2008 at 08:45 AM..
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,685 posts, read 49,462,974 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
I stand corrected; please accept my apologies. Actually, I'm a contractor which is why I haven't had a vacation (and can't look forward to any VA benefits in retirement).
I will readily admit that my military pension does help indeed, my ability to support my family.

So does living in a home with no mortgage, and annual property taxes under $50/year.

If I had no health coverage, we would have been wiped out when my Dw had her first heart attack. As it was, her hospital stay and junk, still cost us six month's pay just in the co-pays and stuff that was not covered.

So far we are both 47 and she has had three HAs.

I do understand how any one thing at any time can wipe out the best laid plans.

Bideshi - do you have some time in uniform? One of my elder brothers was able to use his time in service, against his Police Department pension. He had to pay into his pension plan, to make up for that time. With six years in the Army, he was able to get his PD pension six years sooner. I do not know what company you work for, but do they have anything like that?

Are you eligible for TSP?
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:58 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,142,944 times
Reputation: 9518
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Bideshi - do you have some time in uniform? I do not know what company you work for, but do they have anything like that?

Are you eligible for TSP?
Regretably no. I have been doing this since '66 (I worked for my present employer in Vietnam). The life of an aerospace gypsy is sort of like crewing on a pirate ship. You might get lucky and get some booty, or you might get sunk. In either case you're working for a bunch of pirates.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:01 PM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,053,898 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
So the "lucky" save 20% of their income and invest it, for the purpose of "disparaging" others?

And by for-going new cars and vacations, we are "designing" a "rigged game" against the others?
I think it is both luck and skill. I think the point is that there are people who have worked hard and not been spendthrifts but still can't manage to win at the life game. Some bristle at the financial "winners" who then sanctimoniously disparage anyone else who hasn't managed to win at the life finances game and blame it all on them.

From what I have seen and studied, there are lots of things people can do to live within their means. But being able to save money on top of that to the extent of accumulating enough to afford a very comfortable and secure retirement may not be possible. Saying oh, I did it so anyone can do it is not really true for everyone. Some people are spendthrifts and made bad choices, but there are others who didn't have much choice or things happened outside of their control to destroy their budgets.

Every get rich scheme depends on the winners doing better than most people. As soon as the method becomes commonplace, the wealth delta starts to disappear. Some methods that worked well in the past won't work in today's economy.

There has never in the history of the universe ever been an economic system that universally made everyone well off. Note what actually happens in communist systems that are theoretically supposed to do that - a few are very well off while the masses do rather poorly. Historically, the most stable societies have economic systems that create a large middle class with fail-safe structures for poor people so they don't get desperate and rebel.

Just blaming people carte blanche for their misfortunes is a pat answer without actual data to back it up. It becomes a worrisome social problem when the numbers of people who fail to reach or stay middle class add up to a substantial portion of the population.

Forest, from what you have written, one could make a case that you aren't actually fully retired but rather changed careers to landlording and farming with the military pension to help bolster the incomes from these other sources. BB with his 9 mil has done well for himself but not everyone can do the same. It simply isn't possible.
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