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I disagree about the dining options. I lived for 17 years in the NYC suburbs and would put Olivarios up against all but the best Manhattan Italian restaurants.
Oliverio's is very average and incredibly overrated. Frankly, I hate going there. It's barely a notch above Olive Garden for me.
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The Mexican restaurant on Van Voorhis is excellent
It's an average hole-in-the-wall. Don't get me wrong, I love the place, but Mexican food is usually great at many restaurants. The ones in Charleston are just as good.
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and Cafe Baccus on High Street is also first rate.
Yeah, I like Cafe B, too.
The only real DINER in Morgantown is Ruby & Ketchy's. That's annoying in and of itself. Plus, its not a 24hr diner. I want more 24 hour options other than the freakin' Yinzerfied Eat N' Park. Bleh.
Honestly, I like Parkersburg food the most. The best Pizza in the state at The Pizza Place...honestly, Rubi's on 7th Street is better than Oliverio's for pasta...better Mexican at El Ranchero...and I'm told new place opened up even better than El Ranchero...several 24hr diners...the good 'ol Mountaineer Family Restraunt stands out in my mind. I wound up there at 3AM in my teens more than I care to recall...
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There is great political pressure to bring about improvements, and infrastructure is all that is inhibiting Morgantown from even greater achievements.
The problem is that Morgantown obviously doesn't have enough leverage. The roads needed improved a decade ago. What we have now is an abortion of a system. It would probably take into the billions to fix the problem. A 4-lane divided freeway needs built OVER the Stewartstown/West Run Road area. If that's even feasible. But that's pretty much the only way to make traffic right.
I grew up in Charleston and although I went to school in Morgantown and bleed blue and gold...the two just don't even compare. Charleston has better restaurants, better retail, better highways, better cultural venues, more diverse housing options, etc. Obviously I chose the DC area over either one after college but I still frequent both each year and am familiar enough to be able to judge which one offers more...it isn't Morgantown. At least in my opinion.
Pittsburgh may be 75 miles up the road but that doesn't really have anything to do with Morgantown having a lot of stuff to do or fill some void that the city might be lacking...that is like saying there is a lot of stuff to do in Martinsburg because DC and Baltimore are 80 miles away...Not exactly. Morgantown in fact tries to pride itself on being rather self sufficient from the Burgh.
The job market in Charleston along with most places is rather dismal but Morgantown is far from a job seekers paradise. Most of my friends moved away after college to the DC area, the Carolinas, Pittsburgh, etc. It is GREAT if you are an academic or work in medical field but beyond WVU, Mylan, the hospitals--which Charleston and Huntington also have, and related construction to fill WVU expansion there isn't much.
And anyone who thinks Oliverios is anything more than an overpriced and slightly better version of Olive Garden needs to experience some real Italian food. Fazios in Charleston is better and that says a lot because their food isn't particularly exceptional.. Los Mariachis on Van Voorhis isn't that great of a Mexican place either. Neither is Rio Grande. To be perfectly honest neither Charleston or Morgantown have much to really offer on the ethnic dining scene. I will give you Cafe Baccus but it isn't really a place I would HAVE to eat when visiting Morgantown. The new place in town Dragonfly is decent but it is very overpriced for a sushi restaurant...but then again so is Ichiban in Charleston.
In closing I will say this. Morgantown is an AWESOME college town. I can't think of many other places I would recommend spending 4 (or more lol) years earning a degree. There are few places I would rather be than tailgating outside Mountaineer field on a gameday. The nightlife is excellent for a college student and I was very pleased with the education I received there. However once I got that piece of paper and graduated I needed more. I obviously no longer live in West Virginia and don't plan on moving back but if I ever did it would be to the Charleston area.
Oliverio's is very average and incredibly overrated. Frankly, I hate going there. It's barely a notch above Olive Garden for me.
It's an average hole-in-the-wall. Don't get me wrong, I love the place, but Mexican food is usually great at many restaurants. The ones in Charleston are just as good.
Yeah, I like Cafe B, too.
The only real DINER in Morgantown is Ruby & Ketchy's. That's annoying in and of itself. Plus, its not a 24hr diner. I want more 24 hour options other than the freakin' Yinzerfied Eat N' Park. Bleh.
Honestly, I like Parkersburg food the most. The best Pizza in the state at The Pizza Place...honestly, Rubi's on 7th Street is better than Oliverio's for pasta...better Mexican at El Ranchero...and I'm told new place opened up even better than El Ranchero...several 24hr diners...the good 'ol Mountaineer Family Restraunt stands out in my mind. I wound up there at 3AM in my teens more than I care to recall...
The problem is that Morgantown obviously doesn't have enough leverage. The roads needed improved a decade ago. What we have now is an abortion of a system. It would probably take into the billions to fix the problem. A 4-lane divided freeway needs built OVER the Stewartstown/West Run Road area. If that's even feasible. But that's pretty much the only way to make traffic right.
It's obvious we have differing opinions, but I'm wondering what you are using as a baseline. Mine is in the NYC region, but there is really nothing in West Virginia (and I have travelled extensively over most of the State) that beats the dining available in Morgantown. I agree with you about the traffic issues, and that will be changing with the changing demographics. You're going to see Monongalia, and Northcentral in general, getting more leverage as well as the Eastern Panhandle. Those are the obvious growth areas of the future.
It's obvious we have differing opinions, but I'm wondering what you are using as a baseline.
I can use WV in general or anywhere else as a baseline...it doesn't change the fact that Oliverio's is on the same level as Olive Garden and Los Mariachi's is just average. Honestly, I like Puglioni's more than Oliverio's. They also bake up the best pizza in town.
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You're going to see Monongalia, and Northcentral in general, getting more leverage as well as the Eastern Panhandle. Those are the obvious growth areas of the future.
Not going to happen. More power? Sure. But Charleston still has ALL of the power...and they will for a while. Don't think the people in Charleston resent the Northern part of the state for being successful.
I can use WV in general or anywhere else as a baseline...it doesn't change the fact that Oliverio's is on the same level as Olive Garden and Los Mariachi's is just average. Honestly, I like Puglioni's more than Oliverio's. They also bake up the best pizza in town.
Not going to happen. More power? Sure. But Charleston still has ALL of the power...and they will for a while. Don't think the people in Charleston resent the Northern part of the state for being successful.
That power is beginning to slip from their control.
Yes, the typical insane jealousy does exist as usual in southern West Virginia. I saw plenty of that with during my marriage and my work for the State. Still, it will change whether they like it or not. That region is basically static at best while the other areas are rapidly growing. Time will bring the needed changes. The unfortunate thing is it will take the time to bring it about because if they would just use common sense instead of emotions, they would realize that what is good for Northcentral and the EP is good for the whole State. If we had to depend on the tax base in Kanawha long term we would be in trouble. The thinking you find there is the main reason we are constantly fighting for last place among the states.
CTM--I almost always agree with your posts and this is no exception. It's clear to me that Morgantown "defeats" Charleston in all categories except for infrastructure and local politics (which is another topic all together). Nonetheless, you say that there are plans for great improvements in the infrastructure…I am certainly not qualified to be a city planner, so what are the plans for alleviating the traffic nightmare? The geography and topography of the area greatly inhibits growth. Quite simply, there doesn’t seem to be enough room for expansion. Morgantown has always grown “out†rather than “up.†If you examine the most congested areas of town (University Avenue, 705, campus, etc.) there is nowhere to build new roads (e.g. University Avenue is flanked by the river on one side and several business establishments on the other). Again, I am not at all disagreeing with your posts, as I wholeheartedly agree that Morgantown is a more desirable city. I am just trying to educate myself on how Morgantown’s infrastructure can be expanded to accommodate the growing population.
Obviously we all have differing opinions but I just don't see how the dining options in Morgantown are somehow better than those in Charleston and other places in the state. I think Shepherdstown has better sit down white table-cloth restaurants than Morgantown and it has about 1,500 residents vs. Morgantown's 28,000.
North-Central WV as a whole is not growing nearly as people make it out to be...sure it's big growth by West Virginia standards but on a national level, not really. Mon County can claim some impressive growth adding about 6,300 residents between 2000 and 2008 to just over 88,000 but Harrison County has only added 200 people in that time frame and Marion has lost 100.
If you want to see the growth future of the state look to the Eastern Panhandle. Berkeley County has added 26,000 residents in the same period and Jefferson added about 9,500. Look for even more growth to likely head that way as the DC area continues strong growth..Loudoun County, Virginia right across the border has added 120,000 residents in 8 years.
I'm not pretending that Kanawha hasn't faced some steep losses as I was part of it's 9,000 resident drop since 2000...but it still has about 90,000 more residents than Berkeley County which overtook Cabell for second largest in the state.
I'm with WVUPharm..Charleston has more than enough power to not be worried or resentful over Morgantown. And let's not pretend WVU, the main engine that drives Morgantown growth, hasn't received plenty of funding from Charleston.
CTM--I almost always agree with your posts and this is no exception. It's clear to me that Morgantown "defeats" Charleston in all categories except for infrastructure and local politics (which is another topic all together). Nonetheless, you say that there are plans for great improvements in the infrastructure…I am certainly not qualified to be a city planner, so what are the plans for alleviating the traffic nightmare? The geography and topography of the area greatly inhibits growth. Quite simply, there doesn’t seem to be enough room for expansion. Morgantown has always grown “out” rather than “up.” If you examine the most congested areas of town (University Avenue, 705, campus, etc.) there is nowhere to build new roads (e.g. University Avenue is flanked by the river on one side and several business establishments on the other). Again, I am not at all disagreeing with your posts, as I wholeheartedly agree that Morgantown is a more desirable city. I am just trying to educate myself on how Morgantown’s infrastructure can be expanded to accommodate the growing population.
Dom... all one has to do is walk around the two towns (Morgantown and Charleston) in the evening to see the difference. Charleston largely dies at nightime but Morgantown is bustling. The barometer as to what is more desireable can be read by where people want to be... and Morgantown is clearly the answer. I'm not saying that as anything negative toward Charleston, but the era of manufacturing prosperity in this country is past and the better paying jobs associated with those activities are on the wane. You do still find "assembly" plant jobs to some degree, but those don't really replace the losses due to the elitists dual quest of cheap labor and bogus environmental ripoffs of our middle class.
Charleston's staple of state government employment is significant, and it does help offset some of the losses in better paying sectors affording a stability not found in most towns. But, they are STATE government jobs in a state that is kept poor by stupid politics as usual and internal bickering and jealousy. Political pork barreling will insure an inefficient allocation of already scarce resources and keep the general tax base artificially low. Those jobs for the most part provide a subsistence level existence.
There are actually not many towns in West Virginia that can compete with Charleston due to the state government stability. However, the topic of this thread is a comparison between Charleston and one of the only towns that can not only surpass it for stability but exceed it for potential. Morgantown's academic based employment pays on average better wages... college faculty and researchers are very highly paid by West Virginia standards, and the medical personnel at the major teaching/research hospitals associated with The University make very good salaries. In addition, the related industrial production at Mylan is not only going great guns... it is expanding.
In addition, the government jobs in the Morgantown region (many workers from the Morgantown area) are mostly Federal jobs that pay much higher wages than those in Charleston. There are more than 1,000 workers in Morgantown area Federal prisons, not to mention the Federal jobs in nearby Fairmont and Clarksburg.
The University is in growth mode in nearly every facit, even with the Nation's and State's economic downturn. That is not to say the area has not lost jobs because of the downturn... it has. What it says is that in spite of those losses it has gained far more jobs than it has lost.
Everyone likes their hometown. I can't tell you how much it hurt to see the gradual decline of the once proud and prosperous City of Wheeling... which as recently as the 70s was the State's primary economic engine. It is now less than half of what it was once. The whole Northern Panhandle is a big ghost town. And, I can understand those who stand by their Kanawha County, wanting to believe in it's continued prosperity and greatness. But, folks, Charleston ain't what it used to be and indications are it will be even less than it currently is in the coming years. There aren't enough horses in state government to stem the outward flow, and artificially expanding the borders just to keep demographics will not alter the downward trend in reality.
And, as to cultural events and opportunities... come on. Do you really believe the Clay Center can match the University City in those areas. It isn't even close.
There are 100 places to eat and dozens of art galleries in Morgantown.
In comparison, Charleston boasts the annual Chile tasting contest and a Regata, along with some of the same shows and acts you can find in Morgantown. And, Charleston is nowhere close to a large city.
You are right that improving the infrastructure will be a major challenge. Taking down most of the buildings on the river side of Beechurst and expanding that road would help. They can also make 705 four lanes all the way to Mileground, and use lighted arrows to control traffic flow during peak traffic areas there. Don Knotts can be expanded all the way to the I60 connector with relatively little difficulty. And new highway construction in the West Run area is essential with a connection to US19. We're actually in pretty good shape in the Star City area.
Last edited by CTMountaineer; 10-13-2009 at 01:35 PM..
The barometer as to what is more desireable can be read by where people want to be...
I think Charleston having 21,000+ more people clearly states where more people want to be. You can't look at growth percentage only, as you always try to do. Looking at growth percentage only, Hurricane is more desireable than Morgantown because it is growing at twice the rate. Hurricane is nice, no doubt, but it clearly does not offer more than Morgantown and I don't think anyone would argue that, higher growth rate or not.
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Originally Posted by CTMountaineer
Charleston's staple of state government employment is significant, and it does help offset some of the losses in better paying sectors affording a stability not found in most towns. But, they are STATE government jobs in a state that is kept poor by stupid politics as usual and internal bickering and jealousy. Political pork barreling will insure an inefficient allocation of already scarce resources and keep the general tax base artificially low.
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Originally Posted by CTMountaineer
Morgantown's academic based employment pays on average better wages... college faculty and researchers are very highly paid by West Virginia standards, and the medical personnel at the major teaching/research hospitals associated with The University make very good salaries.
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Originally Posted by CTMountaineer
In addition, the government jobs in the Morgantown region (many workers from the Morgantown area) are mostly Federal jobs that pay much higher wages than those in Charleston. There are more than 1,000 workers in Morgantown area Federal prisons, not to mention the Federal jobs in nearby Fairmont and Clarksburg.
So you bust Charleston for having state and government jobs, and then praise Morgantown for..... having state and government jobs. Like it or not, university employees all over the state are considered state employees. And do you not think that Charleston has a good mix of Federal government jobs along with the state government jobs? Sounds like a double standard.
And unless someone goes to every town in the state and tries every restaurant, there's no way you can claim any one area has defacto superiority over another with culinary offerings. You note that Morgantown has over 100 places to eat but are you aware that that includes fast food joints as well?
And Charleston get's A LOT of shows at the Civic Center and Municipal Auditorium, which again, Morgantown has nothing to compare to either one of those things.
I think NOVAMountaineer and WVUPharm hit the nail on the head, if you go to and/or like WVU and the athletics, Morgantown is GREAT. If you're not too keen on WVU or sports though, you may find it lacking. Charleston has better offerings for shopping, a better downtown, is more walkable, better infrastructure, etc.
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Originally Posted by CTMountaineer
Morgantown is more academically inclined, and that goes for the average resident there as well since more than
1/2 of them possess at least a bachelors degree.
Since when is less than 50% "more than half"?
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