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Ive been sort of monitoring this thread since Silk started it, since I was the guy touting Morgantown over Charleston, but I just wanted to add something that I feel, IMO of course, is wrong in the last post. Ive been to concernts in the Municipal audotorium and civic center. The Creative Arts Center and The Coliseum are far better. In fact, I saw the same act, Ron White, at the CAC and the Municipal Auditorium. The CAC performance was much better. Also, the Coliseum is nice as well. In Morgantown, in September alone, I have seen the Fray, Akon, Kellie Pickler, Third Eye Blind and Girl Talk. Thats not even factoring in the acts that come to Pittsburgh.
I think Charleston having 21,000+ more people clearly states where more people want to be. You can't look at growth percentage only, as you always try to do. Looking at growth percentage only, Hurricane is more desireable than Morgantown because it is growing at twice the rate. Hurricane is nice, no doubt, but it clearly does not offer more than Morgantown and I don't think anyone would argue that, higher growth rate or not.
So you bust Charleston for having state and government jobs, and then praise Morgantown for..... having state and government jobs. Like it or not, university employees all over the state are considered state employees. And do you not think that Charleston has a good mix of Federal government jobs along with the state government jobs? Sounds like a double standard.
And unless someone goes to every town in the state and tries every restaurant, there's no way you can claim any one area has defacto superiority over another with culinary offerings. You note that Morgantown has over 100 places to eat but are you aware that that includes fast food joints as well?
And Charleston get's A LOT of shows at the Civic Center and Municipal Auditorium, which again, Morgantown has nothing to compare to either one of those things.
I think NOVAMountaineer and WVUPharm hit the nail on the head, if you go to and/or like WVU and the athletics, Morgantown is GREAT. If you're not too keen on WVU or sports though, you may find it lacking. Charleston has better offerings for shopping, a better downtown, is more walkable, better infrastructure, etc.
Since when is less than 50% "more than half"?
Tim... nice to see you join the fray. The reason Hurricane is growing is because people are trying to escape Charleston and Huntington, so it's interesting you would bring that up. But it started from basically nothing (actually my old college girlfriend's father once owned about half the town) so percentages aren't that much of a factor. You have to look at trends and actual numbers to see what is actually happening. In any case, Putnam grew at a slower pace than Monongalia during the period 4/00 to 7/08, the only data I can find, so it grew at both a faster percentage and a considerably greater number...
So, just what "offerings" for shopping does Charleston have that are not available in Morgantown? Last I heard, the downtown mall in Charleston is treading water at best. And you want to say that having 21,000 more people makes some place better? (Actually, counting students Charleston likely doesn't have any more people at all) People are bailing on the place almost as fast as they can get out. It is numbers moving INTO a town that show desirability. Besides, now that dorm students count in the census figures look for some significant changes there (we've already discussed how that will aid Huntington too).
And, your Civic Center argument sounds strangely familiar. There you go with the tractor pulling contest again. Here's the list of events for the next three months. There are a couple good ones, but there are a lot more of the Order of the Eastern Star convention events than anything else and those have a very narrow appeal.
Of course I'm aware that the 100+ restaurants include fast food joints. There are no big towns in the whole State... so the group would include those any place. And, I'm not saying restaurants are any better in Morgantown than any other town of significance. Actually, I think the best Italian restaurant is in Clarksburg. I'm just saying there is an impressive array of eateries in Morgantown that, coupled with the many other attractions... best and most numerous cultural offerings... by far the best athletic offerings... access to the greatest array of higher educational offerings at the highest level... and by far the highest educational level of citizenry (and don't throw 300 thieving lawyers in my face)... proximity to great outdoor venues... and proximity to a large city that make it the more desirable place to live. And, that doesn't even factor in the greater economic opportunity found in Northcentral WV.
As to which town is more "walkable" I disagree, but I will agree with you that the infrastructure is better in Charleston. It is up to the State to make the needed improvements there in most cases, and they have very much dropped the ball recently. Charleston does have more old time shops and so forth, but remember Morgantown is essentially a college town while Charleston (like Huntington and Wheeling) is what is left of the old industrial era when those cities actually were powerhouses economically. Those shops are largely carryovers and many have trouble just keeping open their doors.
I didn't "bust" Charleston for having state government jobs. Where did I do that? I simply said those jobs (especially the type they have there) are typically low paying clerical type jobs that have subsistence level wages. That does not give a local economy a great push. And, while you could make the argument that university jobs are "state" jobs that is only true on the surface. The truth is colleges and universities in West Virginia only get between 15% and 19% of their funding from state sources. They rely primarily on tuition, research, and donations as well as endowment funding for the vast majority of their funds, and they typically pay much better than the state due to that fact. How do I know this? I used to work for the State of WV. In fact, I'm a West Virginia retiree.
Of course, some institutions do a better job of compensating their workers than others, which push large portions of their funding into often redundant programs and questionable facilities instead of paying their workforce, but that is another matter. I suppose you could say it is a matter of priorities.
Well, hell, there are a few million people that live in Somalia...I'd imagine they'd rather be in freakin' Grafton, WV than Mogadishu...
Yeah, ... that's sort of like making the argument that because Detriot is bigger than Huntington Detriot is a better place to live, and we all know that just isn't true.
Well, hell, there are a few million people that live in Somalia...I'd imagine they'd rather be in freakin' Grafton, WV than Mogadishu...
Great example, comparing WV to Somolia because there are so many similarities. We don't live in a third world country and to act like the number of people who live in a city has nothing to do with the desirability and opportunity there is naive. If a city is undesirable, we in the U.S. have the opportunity to pack up and go elsewhere.
Also, to the entertainment topic, the Coliseum hosts what, maybe 2 concerts put on by WVU a year since it is a basketball arena and not a performance/entertainment structure. How many upcoming non-sporting events does the Coliseum have coming up? Zero. And per the DA, only about 1,700 showed up to see the Fray which will make it difficult to continue to offer such acts if the attendance isn't there to support it. And the reason the a performance in the CAC may have been better to the poster above, the CAC is less than half the size of the Municipal Auditorium which will offer better acoustics and a more intimate setting but being able to host a larger show is obviously pretty advantageous.
And CT, we've discussed the "best and most numerous cultural offerings" statement before and that was proven false. Also, I wouldn't make too much fun of the World Chili cook off and tractor pulls if one of the biggest events in the town I was promoting was a motorcycle rally. Not saying motorcycle rallys are bad but again, that just seems like a bit of a double standard.
And as to this statement "And, I'm not saying restaurants are any better in Morgantown than any other town of significance" Yeah you did, here's the quote in fact: "...but there is really nothing in West Virginia (and I have travelled extensively over most of the State) that beats the dining available in Morgantown."
If a city is undesirable, we in the U.S. have the opportunity to pack up and go elsewhere.
I believe that is exactly occuring in the Charleston metro area and surrounds. Even if you account for the growth in some outlying areas, the net effect is still population loss for that region as a whole.
Buth then again you look at PA northern counties adjacent to Mo-Town and Fayette and Greene are losing pop too. -3.2 and -3.3 respectively. Oddly, Both Fayette and Greene had population growth from 1990-2000, but subsequently lost all of it and then some from 2000-2008.
So net/net- Mo-Town and it's surrounds, demographically, isn't that hot. Just Mo-Town and a few adjacent counties sucking some in.
Great example, comparing WV to Somolia because there are so many similarities. We don't live in a third world country and to act like the number of people who live in a city has nothing to do with the desirability and opportunity there is naive. If a city is undesirable, we in the U.S. have the opportunity to pack up and go elsewhere.
Also, to the entertainment topic, the Coliseum hosts what, maybe 2 concerts put on by WVU a year since it is a basketball arena and not a performance/entertainment structure. How many upcoming non-sporting events does the Coliseum have coming up? Zero. And per the DA, only about 1,700 showed up to see the Fray which will make it difficult to continue to offer such acts if the attendance isn't there to support it. And the reason the a performance in the CAC may have been better to the poster above, the CAC is less than half the size of the Municipal Auditorium which will offer better acoustics and a more intimate setting but being able to host a larger show is obviously pretty advantageous.
And CT, we've discussed the "best and most numerous cultural offerings" statement before and that was proven false. Also, I wouldn't make too much fun of the World Chili cook off and tractor pulls if one of the biggest events in the town I was promoting was a motorcycle rally. Not saying motorcycle rallys are bad but again, that just seems like a bit of a double standard.
And as to this statement "And, I'm not saying restaurants are any better in Morgantown than any other town of significance" Yeah you did, here's the quote in fact: "...but there is really nothing in West Virginia (and I have travelled extensively over most of the State) that beats the dining available in Morgantown."
Timmy, ... you never proved anything false. It is clear on face value that Morgantown easily has the best/most entertainment available in the State... tractor pulls and mud wrestling aside. And, that doesn't even count the far greater variety available up the road in Pittsburgh. You can post the Big Sandy entertainment all day long, and it won't equal what is available in Morgantown... same for the Marshall stuff (masters level productions vs. doctoral, for example) or the athletics (Charleston does not have a major college program... West Virginia is nationally ranked in just about everything except womens volleyball... and Marshall... come on now, that's like comparing the Steelers to the Sisters of the Poor. It isn't even close.
By the way... saying nothing beats something is not the same as saying it is the best in every instance. You're really cutting it fine there, fellow.
By the way... saying nothing beats something is not the same as saying it is the best in every instance. You're really cutting it fine there, fellow.
By saying that something can't be beaten, you are implying that it is the best. Isn't that the definition of best by the way, better than everything else and nothing beats it?
And you never proved anything was "easily the best" with regards to entertainment options either, making your claim false. Just so we don't have to debate this again, here's the previous thread where we debated all of the entertainment options. I can send you the PM's again if you want as well. That thread also has another reference where you claimed the dining options up there were better as well.
You don't have to have people read through some three year old posts to get the picture. We'll just put up the jist of your post, the activities around Huntington, and let people decide for themselves although I don't know how relevant that is in a post about Morgantown and Charleston. But, here goes:
in addition, the Pittsburgh Symphony, Wheeling Symphony, and University Symphony all produce concerts in Morgantown, and construction will soon start on a new university art gallery that will be open to the public.
I'm sure this list misses stuff, but here is a list of upcoming events to the first of May:
10/17/09 WV vs. Marshall football game
10/19/09 Joanne Kong and Paul Hanson (piano duo)
10/21-10/23/09 Dracula (play) WVU Creative Arts
10/22/09 WVU Wind Symphony Concert
10/24/09 WV vs. UConn football game
10/25/09 WVU Choir Concert and Matinee Performance - Dracula
10/27/09 Camelot - Broadway Musical and WVU Low Brass Concert
10/29/09 WVU Music Gala Concert
11/1/09 Brian Wilson
11/5/09 The Stepcrew - Celtic Dance Group
11/7/10 WV vs. Louisville football game
11/8/10 Pittsburgh Symphony Concert
11/10/09 WVU Symphonic Band Concert
11/11-11/14/09 Opera Scenes
11/13/09 The Ten Tenors
11/15/09 Avenue Q - Broadway Musical
11/15/09 WV vs. Loyola basketball game
11/17/09 WVU Wind Symphony Concert
11/19/09 WVU Symphony Orchestra Concert
11/27/09 WV vs. Pitt football game
11/30&12/1/09 WVU Marching Band Keynote Concert
12/1-12/6/09 The Love of the Nightengale - Creative Arts play
12/3/09 Youth World music concert & Undergrad String Quartet concert
12/6/09 Holiday Choral Concert with WVU Symphony Orchestra
12/7/09 Chamber Winds recital
12/8/09 WVU Electronic Music Concert
12/9/10 WV vs. Duquesne basketball game
12/11/09 Graduate String Quartet recital
12/9/09 Annie - Broadway Musical
12/12/09 WV vs. Coppin State basketball game
12/13/09 Community Arts Orchestra concert
12/15-23/09 West Virginia Public Theater - The Christmas Carol
12/23/09 WV vs. Mississippi basketball game
1/13/10 The Drowsy Chaperone - Broadway Comedy/Musical
1/17/10 Mountain Stage
1/20/10 The Opera Show - British Musical
1/23/10 WV vs. Ohio State basketball game
2/6/10 Opera - Summer and Smoke
2/7/10 Garrison Keillor (A Prairie Home Companion)
2/12/10 WVU Wind Symphony Concert
2/15/10 Romeo and Jiliet by The Acting Company
2/19/10 New Music concert
2/21/10 Faculty Chamber Music recital
2/22/10 Don Quixote by The Israel Ballet
2/25/10 WVU Symphony Orchestra Concert
3/1/10 Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra concert
3/1/10 Chamber Winds Concert
3/2/10 Jazz Ensembles concert
3/4-6/10 Creative Arts Annual Dance Concert
3/8/10 The Odessa Philharmonic Orchestra
3/9/10 Joseph Murphy saxophone recital
3/10/10 Sesame Street/Curious George
3/12-14/10 The Jungle Book - Community Arts Theater play
3/15/10 Jesus Christ Superstar - Broadway Musical
3/16/10 Graduate Wind Quartet concert
3/18/10 Faculty Chamber Music recital
4/6/10 Pat Metheny
4/8/10 Annual Music World Concert
4/10/10 Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra concert
4/11/10 Mountain Stage & WVU Flute Choir Concert
4/13/10 Wind Symphony Concert
4/15/10 Graduate String Quartet concert
4/15-17/10 Opera Scenes
4/17,18&20-25/10 The Grapes of Wrath - Creative Arts Play
4/16/10 African Children's Choir - A Journey of Hope
4/22/10 WVU Symphony Orchestra concert
4/23/10 New Music Concert
4/24/10 New Music Recital
4/25/10 WVU Choir Concert
4/26/10 Electronic Music Concert
4/27/10 Chamber Winds Concert
4/28/10 Nichelodeon Adventure Stories
4/29/10 Undergrad String Ensemble Chamber concert
5/1/10 Community Music Recital
5/2/10 Community Music Violin Recital
It's more than enough to keep anyone occupied. In fact, I worked for many years in the NYC area and it's more than most people in that area do to keep occupied.
Last edited by CTMountaineer; 10-14-2009 at 12:37 PM..
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We don't live in a third world country and to act like the number of people who live in a city has nothing to do with the desirability and opportunity there is naive. If a city is undesirable, we in the U.S. have the opportunity to pack up and go elsewhere. 
