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God tells me not to be deceived by vain words. Also, Romans 7 is dealing with Paul's old man, not His new nature in Christ. Your doctrine will try to refute that, but I listen to Him only -- not the theories of men.
You are a man, and your theories are the theories of a man.
You cannot show me one verse in Romans chapter 7 that specifies that Paul was speaking of his "old man". There are multiple verses in that chapter that do specify that he was writing about his physical body of death in which sin occupied the members thereof.
If you had any knowledge of the koine Greek language in which Romans was written, you would realize that Paul was writing in the present tense, not in the past tense. That is not a theory, that is a fact, one which you refuse to accept.
He wrote, "wretched man that I AM". He did not write, "wretched man that I WAS".
Do you want me to post the Greek for the significant verses in this chapter? I will, i have it right here ...
Something tells me that you don't care what the original Greek says, you would just reject it like you always do.
Study some Greek, then you might begin to understand the scriptures as they were originally written.
You are a man, and your theories are the theories of a man.
You cannot show me one verse in Romans chapter 7 that specifies that Paul was speaking of his "old man". There are multiple verses in that chapter that do specify that he was writing about his physical body of death in which sin occupied the members thereof.
If you had any knowledge of the koine Greek language in which Romans was written, you would realize that Paul was writing in the present tense, not in the past tense. That is not a theory, that is a fact, one which you refuse to accept.
He wrote, "wretched man that I AM". He did not write, "wretched man that I WAS".
Do you want me to post the Greek for the significant verses in this chapter? I will, i have it right here ...
Something tells me that you don't care what the original Greek says, you would just reject it like you always do.
Study some Greek, then you might begin to understand the scriptures as they were originally written.
Ironmaw do you mean present tense like when Paul said Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom i am the worst ?.
Me thinks Paul knew what he was in the flesh but also knew who he was in Christ
I admit willingly that I am not righteous, and that i am a sinner(though it is no longer i that sin but sin that is in me) and did not seek God. I am honest about my sin and the fact that it was God who Chose me and worked in me to will and do his good pleasure.
I look in that mirror every day, and i am always conscious of my weakness and of the fact that i in no way shape form or fashion deserve the grace of God or his free gift of salvation.
Do you look in that mirror?
Yes, I sure do look in the mirror and since I have repented of my sin, Christ who has forgiven me and has entered into my heart and life, I see/hear what He sees and then what He says to me......
Ps.139:13-14 13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb. 14 I will praise You,for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well.
John 16:27 For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to themHe gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
1 John 3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him
Psalm 128:1 Blessed is every one who fears the LORD,Who walks in His ways.
Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Song of Solomon 2:4
He brought me to the banqueting house,And his banner over me was love.
Exodus 19:5
Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, thenyou shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine.
Psalm 119:2 Blessed are those who keep His testimonies,Who seek Him with the whole heart!
1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Psalm 37:28
For the LORD loves justice,And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
Deut.33:3 Yes, He loves the people; All His saints are in Your hand; They sit down at Your feet; Everyone receives Your words.
I Peter 5:7
casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.
Philippians 2:15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,
1 John 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
Psalm 68:19 Blessed be the Lord,Who daily loads us with benefits,The God of our salvation! Selah
Need I too go on........ there are so many scripture that Jesus blesses me with every time I look into that mirror !!!
Oh, yeah, another thing.....
God also says that if anyone touches me, touches the apple of His eye !! That says to me, that I am very special to Him...... Zec.2:8 for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye.
The verses in Romans you mentioned, imo, are referring to those who have been already drawn into the knowledge of God, and he is confirming to them a truth, and that is this: if you take part of the Bread of Life in you, you will bring forth righteousness; if you take part in that which is flesh, you will reap death.
So yes, they are two groups, and we all are a part of the one or the other. Indeed, it is Christ in us that gives us Life, nothing else will do.
As per Romans 6, I do not believe there is a distinction between those who the gift of Life is for. Christ died for all, and I don't believe it was an unfruitful act.
Man has the Seed of Christ in him, and the seed of the serpent, which is the flesh, and the devil. And man is deceived by this serpent until God reveals Himself to the man's heart, showing man his own torment and hell within him; and this is why it must be God who overshadows us.
Mary could not give birth to the Son, it had to be the Holy Ghost to cause the Son to be brought forth. Natural man is out of the picture.
Many thoughts, so little time!
Blessings Bob!
Brian
Brian, following are some words from the only begotten Son of God Himself in Matt ch 7:
[7] Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. [24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: [25] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[26] And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: [27] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Our Savior made a distinction between those who DO His will, and those who DO NOT. He said the gate was narrow "which leads unto life, and few there be that find it."
Jesus stressed the DOING of His will as being necessary for eternal life. How can that possibly be interpreted to aay that ALL will be saved at the end? He made it clear that the wide gate leads to death and destruction.
You are a man, and your theories are the theories of a man.
You cannot show me one verse in Romans chapter 7 that specifies that Paul was speaking of his "old man". There are multiple verses in that chapter that do specify that he was writing about his physical body of death in which sin occupied the members thereof.
If you had any knowledge of the koine Greek language in which Romans was written, you would realize that Paul was writing in the present tense, not in the past tense. That is not a theory, that is a fact, one which you refuse to accept.
He wrote, "wretched man that I AM". He did not write, "wretched man that I WAS".
Do you want me to post the Greek for the significant verses in this chapter? I will, i have it right here ...
Something tells me that you don't care what the original Greek says, you would just reject it like you always do.
Study some Greek, then you might begin to understand the scriptures as they were originally written.
The Word of God does not contradict Itself. It's your theories of what the Word conveys that contradict itself. Paul said that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. That's the Word of God, not the theories of flesh pleasers. As such, Paul was not a sinning Christian, no matter how much you try to interpret the Scriptures to conform to the flesh.
Ephesians 5
[1] Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
[2] And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
[3] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[4] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
[7] Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
You're either righteous or unrighteous. You're either a child of God or a child of the devil. You're either on the narrow road to heaven or the broad road to hell. It's all in whom you obey.
Romans 6
[16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Brian, following are some words from the only begotten Son of God Himself in Matt ch 7:
[7] Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. [24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: [25] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[26] And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: [27] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Our Savior made a distinction between those who DO His will, and those who DO NOT. He said the gate was narrow "which leads unto life, and few there be that find it."
Jesus stressed the DOING of His will as being necessary for eternal life. How can that possibly be interpreted to aay that ALL will be saved at the end? He made it clear that the wide gate leads to death and destruction.
Best wishes in our search for God's truth,
Bob
He said Few there are that are finding it (referring to the gate):
Mat 7:14 how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!
It doesn't say Few there will EVER BE that find it. It was spoken of in PRESENT Tense when it was stated. That means there will simply, AT THAT TIME when it was spoken, Few that were finding the way.
There is no question to me that doing His will is necessary for salvation. The error is to believe that God will not be unable to persuade everyone to do His will. Until such time anyone that doesn't do His will are cast aside and not heirs as are the righteous. But God shall eventually bring all to a lasting peace and happiness in due time.
Brian, following are some words from the only begotten Son of God Himself in Matt ch 7:
[7] Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. [24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: [25] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[26] And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: [27] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Our Savior made a distinction between those who DO His will, and those who DO NOT. He said the gate was narrow "which leads unto life, and few there be that find it."
Jesus stressed the DOING of His will as being necessary for eternal life. How can that possibly be interpreted to aay that ALL will be saved at the end? He made it clear that the wide gate leads to death and destruction.
Best wishes in our search for God's truth,
Bob
Hi Bob,
Excellent post!
The revelations of the apostles of the NT were higher than those of Jesus. Jesus said that He had MANY things to say to them, but they were not ready. Peter's revelation in Acts is an example of this.
Doing HIS will means knowing and following the Anointing in our hearts. Not all know Him now, but death is not the end of the story.
Now let me ask you: Is Christianity today, in all it's divisions, tithe-taking, and power-mongering, walking in the Spirit of God? Are they doing the will of God?
I say that they are not; I see a very different picture, I care not what they "parrot" in their assemblies.
The only One who is doing the will of God, imo, is the Anointing, the Christ. It is the only thing that can cause man to walk righteously towards God and his fellow man. It has nothing to do with the strength of the flesh. I speak from experience.
It has nothing to do with people "choosing this or that gate or road." It is God who reveals His Son in people as individuals, and we have no right to condemn other people who do not believe in Jesus, it is not their responsability.
God put all mankind into Adam, and He will put all men in Christ. The whole deal is His planning, not ours.
My 2 cents for now..
Blessings!
Brian
Last edited by ahigherway; 10-27-2010 at 09:24 AM..
Reason: learning to answer a bit better!
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for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
