Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We CAN BE grafted in,,,but God will never FORCE anyone in,,which basically is what UR teaches.
Yes, there is not forcing. UR believes people are forced even after their deaths. It would be pointless for them to argue that everyone is forced while living since thousands of people die everyday with no evidence of being forced to belief.
You, on the other hand, I cannot comment on because I cannot see the fruit you bear TO repentance.
Yikes!
After you spent some time examining my life Hot, I somehow get the feeling that I probably would not measure up to your standard of "the fruit I bear to repentance".
I'm sure in your eyes my "goose would be cooked" for sure.
I believe that the timing of the repentance (change of mind) of each individual is under God's control.
Here is a snippet from James Coram's HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE
"God’s gracious workings certainly are the greatest force, or power, in all the universe.
The voluntary love and service which they produce are created just as effectively and surely as any compelled, involuntary servitude could ever be. For they are the product of God’s own counsels, channeled through His achievements in the cross of Christ, and He will not have them fail."
Yes, there is not forcing. UR believes people are forced even after their deaths. It would be pointless for them to argue that everyone is forced while living since thousands of people die everyday with no evidence of being forced to belief.
Finn let's say for arguments sake ET is true, it still does not change the fact that God is the Author and finisher of OUR Salvation, in otherwords,it's his idea and his accomplishment.
I had forgotten that the writer of that article was a believer in universal salvation.
That was six years ago, and back then I couldn't figure out what his problem with me was.
Quite frankly, I still don't understand it.
Hi Roger the owners of that site have a problem with everyone, they think they are perfect and without sin.
I had a long conversation with Paul Cohen (one of the owners of that site)
and they are looking to be teachers of all men, if you disagree with them you are plain and simple a false teacher.
But they deal in half truths, only posting Correspondences to were they beleive they have rebuttled the person they are talking to and then leave out the rest of the conversation.
Example: here is our correspondance that they put up on their site.
The problem is this is only the first part of five correspondences we had. by only putting on their site only the first correspondence they make it look like they answered everything well, but if our whole conversation was put on their site many of their followers would realise they are not so perfect as they say they are.
Here is the full conversation for anyone who might be interested.
Yes, there is not forcing. UR believes people are forced even after their deaths. It would be pointless for them to argue that everyone is forced while living since thousands of people die everyday with no evidence of being forced to belief.
Right, God never forced anyone to do anything ...
He never forced Jonah to prophecy to Nineveh against his will ... OR Nebuchadnezzar to confess that he was God by making him think he was a wild dog for seven years.
He didn't force Thomas to believe he resurrected by appearing to him in the upper room, or Paul to believe by appearing to him on the road to Damascus and blinding him.
He did not force Israel to reject Christ by hardening their hearts and blinding them, or Pharaoh to to refuse to let Israel go ...
Romans 9 and 11 are a lie ... God does not have mercy on whomever he will, and harden whomever he will. It is not about who God hardens or who he has mercy on, it is about the one who wills to do his will.
It is not God who works within us to will and do his pleasure, its about our free will decision which derives from our carnal natures ...
Its not about how God works everything out according to the counsel of his own will, its about how God works everything out according to the counsel of the free will he has given every human being.
He would never force anyone to do anything, especially not the nations to become Christs footstool, or all things to be subjected to Christ.
Its not up to God to direct mens steps, it is up to man to direct his own steps ... Our steps are not ordered of the lord, we order the lord to allow us to direct our own steps, right?
Like Roger said, you keep believing whatever you want to believe, all the time refusing to realize that God is the one who hardens and has mercy ... You simply don't realize that it is God who has hardened your hearts so that you reject the plain truth of the scriptures in place of the traditions of men, so that you see free will in scriptures, even though it is never even mentioned once but is instead expressly contradicted ...
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. Is it any clearer to you? Here are some verses for you to study:
Ps 5
For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You. The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You HATE ALL who do iniquity. You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD ABHORS the man of bloodshed and deceit.
Ps 11
The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul HATES. Upon the wicked He will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind will be the portion of their cup. For the LORD is righteous, He loves righteousness; The upright will behold His face.
How about singling out a person that God hates?
And I HATED Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Nowhere does it say God loves EVERYONE who has ever lived. Even in this verse:
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
There is a condition to eternal life. It is a belief IN His Son. The world here is Kosmos, which in the context of this verse,,,,is Israel. The country He founded and established, on earth. Even then, not all of these will be saved, because they believed NOT on His Son.
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world MIGHT BE saved through Him. "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Just replace world with Israel because of the convenant God made with those people,,and it will make better sense.
Mute point. He doesn't love ALL Humans. I have already shown this.
There are lots of people whom God doesn't chastise, as evidenced of the worldly-systems we reside under.
No. Absolutely, not!
Any clearer?
The Word says that He doesn't. Unless you want to start rewriting the bible, you cannot say the same thing, either.
So, if I am missing something, perhaps you may enlighten me. Some of you cannot fathom why Yahweh would wipe out entire tribes and nations. I can. Some of you cannot understand why Yahweh does the things He does, yet claim to love everyone. I can.
There is His people, whom He does love. There is the rest, who can be grafted INTO His people, and be saved through His Son. Then there are the rest, who, not unlike beasts seeking their own destruction,,,are reserved unto death. The letter of Jude explains this quite well.
But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves....These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
Is Jealousy a trait of love?
Ask yourself that question, and pray on it,,before answering it. God not only IS Love, He is Jealous. He is SO Jealous, that He would hold future generations accountable to what the forefathers did against Him.
For thou shalt worship no other god: for YAHWEH, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Hope this helps.
Now let me ask you questions.
Do you believe God is the Judge?
Do you think His Jealousy will play a part in that judgement?
So along with Verna, and obviously all others who agree with them, Hotinaz believes God hates most of humanity ... According to them God hates his enemies, even though Christ said we should love our enemies in order to be like God in heaven.
Hotinaz believes and teaches that God never loves us, until we first love him, even though John clearly wrote that we love god because he first loved us ...
Praise be to the living God, because he shows his sovereignty even in the mouths of those who reject his word.
What? That post was not directed to you, but what I do see from you is a ton of copying and pasting, which means you follow man, and not God. God desires to teach you, personally. Why would you need other men's doctrines, no matter how rosy they sound, and not the Truth straight from Jesus Himself, which is what He desires to do. Teach you personally that is.
Quote:
After you spent some time examining my life Hot, I somehow get the feeling that I probably would not measure up to your standard of "the fruit I bear to repentance".
Neither would any of us. The past is not what matters, because that is the path behind us. Jesus paid the price for our iniquities. The path we are on, and in front of us IS what matters.
Quote:
I'm sure in your eyes my "goose would be cooked" for sure.
Your 'goose will be cooked' if you do not develope a personal relationship with Jesus, as King, and God, and follow Him alone. There will be no excuse when standing in front of Him on the day of judgement.
Quote:
I believe that the timing of the repentance (change of mind) of each individual is under God's control.
This is called trials and tribulations. We go through those as we grow IN Him. Some fall away. Others mature further. When we pass from this earthly existence is when we find out how we measured up in His eyes.
There is NO SECOND CHANCES, which is what you believe.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
...
It's a matter of timing - god's, not ours
