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I had forgotten that the writer of that article was a believer in universal salvation.
That was six years ago, and back then I couldn't figure out what his problem with me was.
Quite frankly, I still don't understand it.
I'm new to Universalism, but I have noticed there is friction between some of the Universalist sites, and I guess there was some friction between the people at the link sciotamicks gave and Tentmaker's site. I don't often read the sciotamick's link, but I have come across it before. Like Ironmaw said, it could have been a miscommunication. They seem to have pretty set-in-stone views, so there might not have been room to move around. When I first started hearing about Universalists I though they would be pretty laid back, but it seems they fight over the little things, too. I guess we all do sometimes.
Last edited by herefornow; 11-27-2010 at 10:16 PM..
I had forgotten that the writer of that article was a believer in universal salvation. That was six years ago, and back then I couldn't figure out what his problem with me was. Quite frankly, I still don't understand it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776
If you ask me, it seems like it was a miscommunication.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Don't count on it. Speaking from first hand experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow
I'm new to Universalism, but I have noticed there is friction between some of the Universalist sites, and I guess there was some friction between the people at the link sciotamicks gave and Tentmaker's site. I don't often read the sciotamick's link, but I have come across it before. Like Ironmaw said, it could have been a miscommunication. They seem to have pretty set-in-stone views, so there might not have been room to move around. When I first started hearing about Universalists I though they would be pretty laid back, but, it seems they fight over the little things, too. I guess we all do sometimes.
Or not. Maybe Jerwade is right. Anyway, I'm sorry, Rodger.
I had forgotten that the writer of that article was a believer in universal salvation.
That was six years ago, and back then I couldn't figure out what his problem with me was.
Quite frankly, I still don't understand it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776
If you ask me, it seems like it was a miscommunication.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Don't count on it. Speaking from first hand experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow
Or not. Maybe Jerwade is right. Anyway, I'm sorry, Rodger.
Well, whatever the case may be, your cool in my book Roger!
Let me get this straight, are you saying that God does not love all people?
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. Is it any clearer to you? Here are some verses for you to study:
Ps 5
For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You. The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You HATE ALL who do iniquity. You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD ABHORS the man of bloodshed and deceit.
Ps 11
The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul HATES. Upon the wicked He will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind will be the portion of their cup. For the LORD is righteous, He loves righteousness; The upright will behold His face.
How about singling out a person that God hates?
And I HATED Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Quote:
The scriptures i quoted clearly state that god chastises those whom he loves.
Nowhere does it say God loves EVERYONE who has ever lived. Even in this verse:
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
There is a condition to eternal life. It is a belief IN His Son. The world here is Kosmos, which in the context of this verse,,,,is Israel. The country He founded and established, on earth. Even then, not all of these will be saved, because they believed NOT on His Son.
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world MIGHT BE saved through Him. "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Just replace world with Israel because of the convenant God made with those people,,and it will make better sense.
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If God loves all people, then he will chastise all people, and he will recieve all people who will be made righteous and holy by his chastisements.
Mute point. He doesn't love ALL Humans. I have already shown this.
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If there is any person whom God will not chastise, then God does not love that person.
There are lots of people whom God doesn't chastise, as evidenced of the worldly-systems we reside under.
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So please state it clearly for all to read ... Do you believe that God loves all people?
Yes or no?
No. Absolutely, not!
Any clearer?
The Word says that He doesn't. Unless you want to start rewriting the bible, you cannot say the same thing, either.
So, if I am missing something, perhaps you may enlighten me. Some of you cannot fathom why Yahweh would wipe out entire tribes and nations. I can. Some of you cannot understand why Yahweh does the things He does, yet claim to love everyone. I can.
There is His people, whom He does love. There is the rest, who can be grafted INTO His people, and be saved through His Son. Then there are the rest, who, not unlike beasts seeking their own destruction,,,are reserved unto death. The letter of Jude explains this quite well.
But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves....These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
Is Jealousy a trait of love?
Ask yourself that question, and pray on it,,before answering it. God not only IS Love, He is Jealous. He is SO Jealous, that He would hold future generations accountable to what the forefathers did against Him.
For thou shalt worship no other god: for YAHWEH, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Hope this helps.
Now let me ask you questions.
Do you believe God is the Judge?
Do you think His Jealousy will play a part in that judgement?
Example being….I have repeatedly stated, in so many words, that….
“Without the Touch of God, we WILL always fail”
Yes, this is very true, and I never argued this. But Jesus said that he tried many times to gather Israel under His wings, but they were not willing. And in Jeromiah God said he spoke to them, but they did not listen. These are examples of God drawing Israel to Himself, but they rejected Him. God desires people to come to Him, and he draws them to Himself, but people do not listen to His calling. God's attempt to gather Israel was the touch of God you talk about, but they rejected it.
It is not that God blocks His own calling, and then punish people for not hearing it. What would be wicked. When he calls people, He wants us to come. God chooses the date and time of His calling, and when it happens it is up to us to either reject it or accept it. This is evidenced all over the Bible, like in the parable of the wedding, where God invited Israel to His wedding, but they rejected the invitation. Then He invited the gentiles, and many came, but some showed up not believing, and those were thrown out.
Jesus said we must make every effort to take the narrow gate, and He says that many take the wide road, and it is the road to destruction.
Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 11-28-2010 at 08:34 AM..
Yes, this is very true, and I never argued this. But Jesus said that he tried many times to gather Israel under His wings, but they were not willing. And in Jeromiah God said he spoke to them, but they did not listen. These are God drawing Israel to Himself, but they rejected Him. God desires people to come to Him, and he draws them to Himself, but people do not listen to His calling. God's attempt to gather Israel was the touch of God you talk about, but they rejected it.
It is not that God blocks His own calling, and then punish people for not hearing it. What would be wicked. When he calls people, He wants us to come. God chooses the date and time of His calling, and when it happens it is up to us to either reject it or accept it. This is evidenced all over the Bible, like in the parable of the wedding, where God invited Israel to His wedding, but they rejected the invitation. Then He invited the gentiles, and many came, but some showed up not believing, and those were thrown out.
Jesus said we must make every effort to take the narrow gate, and He says that many take the wide road, and it is the road to destruction.
Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'
Amen!
We CAN BE grafted in,,,but God will never FORCE anyone in,,which basically is what UR teaches.
I think Saul would disagree with you on this.I will also, he brought me to my knees in repentance.
Saul was ALREADY a believer, in God, but didn't KNOW Christ.
You, on the other hand, I cannot comment on because I cannot see the fruit you bear TO repentance.
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The "force" of god's love
