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Yes, there is not forcing. UR believes people are forced even after their deaths. It would be pointless for them to argue that everyone is forced while living since thousands of people die everyday with no evidence of being forced to belief.
Finn, were all mankind forced to be condemned due to what one man did?
Before you were born could you opt out of being condemned?
Were all mankind forced to be made sinners due to what one man did?
Before you were born could you opt out of being made a sinner?
Since this is the case with all mankind, that all mankind were made sinners, not willingly, why is it so strange for you to believe that all mankind can and will be justified due to what one Man did and all mankind will be MADE righteous due to what one Man did in Romans 5:18,19?
Rom 8:20-21 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation" (21) that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
The creation did not volunteer to be made vain and the creation will not volunteer to be brought into the freedom of God's children. God will do it.
You all should really learn the difference between simple posting with links and spamming. Rodgertutt is NOT spamming. He posts links that are relevant to the conversation. Links that you all should take the time to read.
Yes God is instructing us through His word. However why don't you explain how we must ignore the sections of the Bible that donot agree with your belief system. Why don't you tell everyone that the Bible can only be understood by removing the sections you have personally decided are nolonger valid. Explain to us how your self imposed censorship, squares with God's actual account. And if you recall, the Bible gives strong warnings to those would would play with God's Word in such a way.
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
There is nothing being removed, being censored or anything else. A good heart filled with the Spirit of Christ will not bring forth evil doctrines and evil thoughts. Evil hearts, regardless of what they see or read, will always bring forth evil doctrines, full of malice, bitterness and envy. ETer's really dislike being told that God justifies the ungodly by Christ alone. And He did so (past tense) apart from anything that the sinner did or does. That's why I say it so often on this board...LOL
When ETer's read of God's judgments they "see" and "hear" only condemnation, hell fire and tormenting of God's creation for all eternity. When UR's read of God's judgment's they "see" and "hear" God's grace. They "see" the Good potter at work, who brings miracles of kindness, goodness and mercy that will, in the end, shape, mold and form that lump of clay that He created into vessels of honor for His glory.
When UR's read of God's judgment's they "see" and "hear" God's grace. They "see" the Good potter at work, who brings miracles of kindness, goodness and mercy that will, in the end, shape, mold and form that lump of clay that He created into vessels of honor for His glory.
Well said.
Words that uplift the spirit and bring one closer to Him.
Thank you, Alabama.
sparrow
Finn, were all mankind forced to be condemned due to what one man did?
Before you were born could you opt out of being condemned?
Were all mankind forced to be made sinners due to what one man did?
Before you were born could you opt out of being made a sinner?
Since this is the case with all mankind, that all mankind were made sinners, not willingly, why is it so strange for you to believe that all mankind can and will be justified due to what one Man did and all mankind will be MADE righteous due to what one Man did in Romans 5:18,19?
Rom 8:20-21 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation" (21) that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
The creation did not volunteer to be made vain and the creation will not volunteer to be brought into the freedom of God's children. God will do it.
I am talking about forced salvation after death. There is no such thing. At least not according to the Bible.
I am talking about forced salvation after death. There is no such thing. At least not according to the Bible.
Finn, could you please answer my question? I believe they are relevant.
Whether they are forced or not, we are told they will be made righteous and justified and brought into the freedom God's children now enjoy.
Since they didn't volunteer to come into these things before they died what is their only option for them in the future? . . . made righteous, justified, freed.
Because he percieved they were a threat to Judaism, which is what he was called to do as a Pharisee.
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2. Saul hated Jesus
Yes, I would agree.
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3. Saul hated God
Disagree. You cannot be a Pharisee and hate God. Sorry, nice try though.
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4. Saul's heart was full of murder and threats.
Only because he didn't know what he was doing. Had he known, he would not have committed murder in God's name, not unlike today's day and age, with Christians killing others on foreign soil. I am sure they believe what theya re doing is in accordance to God's will.
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5. Saul used violence to imprison the followers of Jesus
Doesn't matter how they were imprisoned,,,just the fact they were,,falsely.
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6. Saul was a blasphemer of God
Only because he didn't know better. Again, the Pharisee was the Law-keeper and enforcer.
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7. Saul worked sin (iniquity) in unbelief.
More like nonbelief in Jesus. Had nothing at all to do with the Father.
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8. Saul was faithless toward God
Aren't we all? Do we ALL not at times, succumb to certain fleshly doubts? It is only when we mature past the point of childhood does our faith stand strongest.
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9. Saul was chief among sinners (workers of iniquity).
Again, only because he didn't know what he was doing.
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However, Paul also tells us that Jesus loved him and gave himself for him in order to redeem him of his works of iniquity.:
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Paul was 'set aside' from birth. Kind of a unique person he was.
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Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
A peculiar people,,not ALL people.
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Can you explain your position: How that Saul while being a worker of iniquity (a person whom you say was HATED by God), was loved by Jesus who gave Himself for him?
Paul was a Pharisee and a law-keeper, so he thought. Otherwise, God would not have chosen him for his task.
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You also said Saul was already a believer in God but did not know Jesus. Can you explain how someone can be a believer in God but not know Jesus?
Ask the Jews that question. That is who you are aiming at. The ones in the first covenant.
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Also, can a person who believes in God also threaten to murder His followers?
Sure, if it is of the Law. It was a requirement of the Mosaic Law that blasphemers be put to death. Why is it do you think they killed Jesus?
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Hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving
We've got leftovers that will last for weeks! The Lord is truly good to all!
Psa 145:9 Jehovah is good to all; and His tender mercies are over all His works.
Was awesome. We gave thanks to our Creator for the blessings He has bestowed on our family.
I am sure you do, but I don't. I don't see them having anything to do with what I said.
I know you don't see how they relate.
I was just trying to get you to be honest with yourself.
Since those verses say they (all mankind) will be MADE righteous and will be brought into the freedom God's children now enjoy, whether or not this is forced upon them is a moot point. What is true is that they will be made righteous.
Mankind, all mankind were forced to be made sinners due to what Adam did. We didn't volunteer to be made sinners due to what Adam did. Do you think that was fair?
Disagree. You cannot be a Pharisee and hate God. Sorry, nice try though.
Of course Saul hated God. He did not know who God was. And the God he did not know, he hated.
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Only because he didn't know what he was doing. Had he known, he would not have committed murder in God's name, not unlike today's day and age, with Christians killing others on foreign soil. I am sure they believe what theya re doing is in accordance to God's will.
Similar to those who protect their own family with a gun? That kind of believing (and/or killing) if it comes down to it?
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Doesn't matter how they were imprisoned,,,just the fact they were,,falsely.
Regardless, it was done out of his hate for Christ.
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Only because he didn't know better. Again, the Pharisee was the Law-keeper and enforcer.
More like nonbelief in Jesus. Had nothing at all to do with the Father.
Sure it does. Those who hated Jesus hated His Spirit (God).
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Aren't we all? Do we ALL not at times, succumb to certain fleshly doubts? It is only when we mature past the point of childhood does our faith stand strongest.
Again, only because he didn't know what he was doing.
Paul was 'set aside' from birth. Kind of a unique person he was.
A peculiar people,,not ALL people.
Paul was a Pharisee and a law-keeper, so he thought. Otherwise, God would not have chosen him for his task.
Ask the Jews that question. That is who you are aiming at. The ones in the first covenant.
Sure, if it is of the Law. It was a requirement of the Mosaic Law that blasphemers be put to death. Why is it do you think they killed Jesus?
Was awesome. We gave thanks to our Creator for the blessings He has bestowed on our family.
I'm glad to hear that my friend, I'm also too tired to go through this line by line, it would prove fruitless...LOL
The truth of the matter is that Saul, like all sinners, was a worker of iniquity. Yet God still loved him, just like He does all sinners. This refutes the idea that God hates ALL workers of iniquity without also loving them too.
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No thanks....knock yourself out! 
