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Thanks, I was aware of this. But the Latter Day Saints around here are more Gospel tuned.
NQ
I assure you they are more attune to that teaching that the Gospel. It's so foundational in Mormon faith that you can't get around it.
They also believe Jesus was the first born of their god along with Lucifer and all of the people who ever have or will live on earth. To the Mormon we are all literal brothers and sisters of Jesus.
Don't be fooled.
Ask any Mormon if they believe "as man is, god once was and as god is man may become". If they are Mormon they know that live very well.
I assure you they are more attune to that teaching that the Gospel. It's so foundational in Mormon faith that you can't get around it.
They also believe Jesus was the first born of their god along with Lucifer and all of the people who ever have or will live on earth. To the Mormon we are all literal brothers and sisters of Jesus.
Don't be fooled.
Ask any Mormon if they believe "as man is, god once was and as god is man may become". If they are Mormon they know that live very well.
John 10:34 - Jesus replied to them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods"'?
Yes, I concede. Your internal knowledge far outways my own in this area. But it does not detract from the fact that we as believing Christians (with presumably inspired knowledge of the way of righteousness) should be judge and jury on the Mormon community.
As you say, you were an ex-Mormon, and I have met along the way many others who have come out of their circles, but also a number who have moved from solid charismatic churches to Mormonism. It's a strange one but I maintain my vigilance as you advise.
But as Jesus said: "Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead! Your duty is to go and preach about the Kingdom of God." (Luke 9:60). And Isaiah 55: v11 "So is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."
I don't think the Lord God or faithful believers need to justify themselves against the Mormon Church. What will be, will be in the end. And it is relevant from the Book of Revelations that many Saints will be there before the throne of God, from wherever they come from, and it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Lord God. Even so, "Come Lord Jesus".
Thanks again for your comments. NQ
Last edited by NickyQuen; 08-08-2012 at 09:14 AM..
- Jesus Christ is the literal Son of God. His birth, life, death, and resurrection fulfilled the many prophecies contained in the scriptures concerning the coming of a Savior. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge.
- Through His Resurrection, Jesus Christ saved us from death. Because He overcame death, we will all be given the gift of resurrection, that is to say our spirits will be eternally re-united with our bodies (Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 15:22). When life on this earth is over, Jesus Christ will be the final Judge.
Putting all other documents and ideology aside, how close to not being a Christian can you get if people sincerely believe the above?
I'm confused. Are you saying these things are not Christian beliefs?
I'm confused. Are you saying these things are not Christian beliefs?
Understood. These are Christian beliefs in my view. The point was how much more does a person have to believe in order to be classified (or become) a Christian in quotes? Because those statements of belief, basically outlined our own beliefs and faith. Maybe some would disagree.
When I was in the LDS church one of the class's I taught was called "Gospel Principles" (still have the book) this is a class for those investigating the church, new members and those returning to the church.
This chapter is about Families are forever. Here is a quote:
"Families can be together forever. To enjoy this blessing we must be married in the temple. When people are married outside the temple, the marriage ends when one of the partners dies. When we are married in the temple by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood, we are married for time and eternity. If we keep our covenants with the Lord, our families will be united eternally as husband, wife, and children. Death cannot separate us."
We often try to explain how important the temple is in Mormon religion and this helps you understand. Remember this is in the most basic teaching of the church for new members and those looking into the church. Not some deep dark secret they hide till later.
"The Atonement of Jesus Christ assures each of us that we will be resurrected and live forever. But if we are to live forever with our families in Heavenly Father’s presence, we must do all that the Savior commands us to do. This includes being baptized and confirmed and receiving the ordinances of the temple.
As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we have each been baptized and confirmed by one having the proper priesthood authority. Each of us may also go to the temple to receive the saving priesthood ordinances performed there. But many of God’s children have not had these same opportunities. They lived at a time or place when the gospel was not available to them.
Heavenly Father wants all of His children to return and live with Him. For those who died without baptism or the temple ordinances, He has provided a way for this to happen. He has asked us to perform ordinances for our ancestors in the temples."
Mormons also believe they can help the dead get to heaven by having temple rituals done for them in their name.
Same chapter:
"Our Ancestors Need Our Help
Mario Cannamela married Maria Vitta in 1882. They lived in Tripani, Italy, where they raised a family and shared many wonderful years together. Mario and Maria did not hear the message of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ during their lifetimes. They were not baptized. They did not have the opportunity to go to the temple and be sealed together as an eternal family. At death, their marriage ended.
Over a century later a great reunion took place. Descendants of Mario and Maria went to the Los Angeles Temple, where a great-grandson and his wife knelt at an altar and served as proxies for the sealing of Mario and Maria. Tears filled their eyes as they shared in Mario and Maria’s joy.
Many of our ancestors are among those who died without hearing about the gospel while on the earth. They now live in the spirit world (see chapter 41 in this book). There they are taught the gospel of Jesus Christ. Those who have accepted the gospel are waiting for the temple ordinances to be performed for them. As we perform these ordinances in the temple for our ancestors, we can share their joy."
I am including links to LDS manuals so you can see for yourself that what I am telling you is true.
When I was in the LDS church one of the class's I taught was called "Gospel Principles" (still have the book) this is a class for those investigating the church, new members and those returning to the church.
This chapter is about Families are forever. Here is a quote:
"Families can be together forever. To enjoy this blessing we must be married in the temple. When people are married outside the temple, the marriage ends when one of the partners dies. When we are married in the temple by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood, we are married for time and eternity. If we keep our covenants with the Lord, our families will be united eternally as husband, wife, and children. Death cannot separate us."
We often try to explain how important the temple is in Mormon religion and this helps you understand. Remember this is in the most basic teaching of the church for new members and those looking into the church. Not some deep dark secret they hide till later.
"The Atonement of Jesus Christ assures each of us that we will be resurrected and live forever. But if we are to live forever with our families in Heavenly Father’s presence, we must do all that the Savior commands us to do. This includes being baptized and confirmed and receiving the ordinances of the temple.
As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we have each been baptized and confirmed by one having the proper priesthood authority. Each of us may also go to the temple to receive the saving priesthood ordinances performed there. But many of God’s children have not had these same opportunities. They lived at a time or place when the gospel was not available to them.
Heavenly Father wants all of His children to return and live with Him. For those who died without baptism or the temple ordinances, He has provided a way for this to happen. He has asked us to perform ordinances for our ancestors in the temples."
Mormons also believe they can help the dead get to heaven by having temple rituals done for them in their name.
Same chapter:
"Our Ancestors Need Our Help
Mario Cannamela married Maria Vitta in 1882. They lived in Tripani, Italy, where they raised a family and shared many wonderful years together. Mario and Maria did not hear the message of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ during their lifetimes. They were not baptized. They did not have the opportunity to go to the temple and be sealed together as an eternal family. At death, their marriage ended.
Over a century later a great reunion took place. Descendants of Mario and Maria went to the Los Angeles Temple, where a great-grandson and his wife knelt at an altar and served as proxies for the sealing of Mario and Maria. Tears filled their eyes as they shared in Mario and Maria’s joy.
Many of our ancestors are among those who died without hearing about the gospel while on the earth. They now live in the spirit world (see chapter 41 in this book). There they are taught the gospel of Jesus Christ. Those who have accepted the gospel are waiting for the temple ordinances to be performed for them. As we perform these ordinances in the temple for our ancestors, we can share their joy."
I am including links to LDS manuals so you can see for yourself that what I am telling you is true.
That's 100% accurate. So if you don't believe it, fine. What's the issue here?
That's 100% accurate. So if you don't believe it, fine. What's the issue here?
I was trying to show the importance of the temple in the Mormon religion to help people understand it better. Some think it is something that may or may not be believed by all Mormons but as anyone who knows the LDS church knows it is accepted by all.
Here are some basic teachings all Mormons must accept.
God has a body.
We are spirit children of God and existed before coming to earth.
The Mormon Priesthood is required to preform ordnances
Ordances are required for salvation
Now pay close attention to the last 2. Now you see they believe you cannot have salvation without the Mormon church.
"The Church today teaches the same principles and performs the same ordinances as were performed in the days of Jesus. The first principles and ordinances of the gospel are faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism by immersion, and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost (see Articles of Faith 1:4). These precious truths were returned in their fulness when the Church was restored.
Through the gift and power of God, Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon, which contains the plain and precious truths of the gospel. Many other revelations followed and have been recorded as scripture in the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price (see chapter 10 in this book).
Other important truths that the Lord restored include the following:
1. Our Heavenly Father is a real being with a tangible, perfected body of flesh and bones, and so is Jesus Christ. The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit.
2. We existed in premortal life as spirit children of God.
3. The priesthood is necessary to administer the ordinances of the gospel.
4. We will be punished for our own sins and not for Adam’s transgression.
5. Children do not need to be baptized until they are accountable (eight years old).
6. There are three kingdoms of glory in the heavens, and through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, people will be rewarded according to their actions on earth and according to the desires of their hearts.
7. Family relationships can be eternal through the sealing power of the priesthood.
8. Ordinances and covenants are required for salvation and are available for both the living and the dead."
When I was in the LDS church one of the class's I taught was called "Gospel Principles" (still have the book) this is a class for those investigating the church, new members and those returning to the church.
Sounds like a trip down memory for you. Do you have reservations or need to justify your leaving? I mean, if you look at the volumes of Catholic rhetoric and laws for members, there is as much additional ideology and statements of belief as has the Mormon Church. In fact centuries more to be accurate. But we still get on with it. I also remind you that the original posting was not about doctrine but...
"I’ve been posting on this forum for quite some time now. None of you have never seen me start a thread with the intent to bash another Christian denomination or respond to someone else’s post by taking one simple comment someone made and using it as a springboard from which launch an attack against his religion. But that happens almost daily with respect to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Ideas and beliefs are challenged all the time on this forum. That’s the nature of debate. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest to have my beliefs questioned, challenged and even criticized. What bothers me is having my beliefs described inaccurately time and time again by the same individuals. It doesn’t seem to matter how many times I correct these people, they continue to post the same negative nonsense. And they expect you to believe it. Maybe you do believe it."
A.K.A - What is the problem with you Christians bashing Mormons." Which in my humble view is quite an important issue. I mean why have we got this particular sect of Christians getting involved and doing these things, when we are strictly told by Jesus to mind our own business and turn the other cheek. And are they infiltrating the Christian Church, disrupting congregations or standing outside waving abusive banners. To the contrary, they leave us alone.
A.K.A - Why are we as Christians, not dealing with our own house and allowing this to happen?
It's not about doctrine, it's about Christian attitudes and our failure to comply to the teachings of our faith.
NQ
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Vigilance is Essential
