Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Men would do better to spend more time on their knees seeking God, than in debate with one another.
Jde 1:3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jde 1:4, For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Last edited by justbyfaith; 07-30-2021 at 01:53 AM..
And the reason the scriptures, and the things we've discussed, are not clear to you is precisely the reason given in the scriptures you've quoted.
But fear not, the blinding that Paul spoke of is "the leaven of the Pharisees" which, unfortunately, you're caught up in. However, it's temporary, and not your final end:
Luk 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Christ will not only make the Gospel known to you, He'll save you by it.
I am certainly not blind to anything that has been presented in the way of substantiating the doctrines of the UR.
I am simply aware of the verses and passages that show the doctrines of the UR to be false.
If you can give me an answer to the following, I may even convert:
Mar 9:42, And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Mar 9:43, And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45, And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.
Mar 9:46, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47, And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED:
Outline of Biblical Usage [?] unquenched, unquenchable
of eternal hell fire to punish the damned
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
ἄσβεστος ásbestos, as'-bes-tos; from G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of G4570; not extinguished, i.e. (by implication) perpetual:—not to be quenched, unquenchable.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon [?](Jump to Scripture Index)
STRONGS NT 762: ἄσβεστος
ἄσβεστος, -ον, (σβέννυμι), unquenched (Ovid, inexstinctus), unquenchable (Vulg. inexstinguibilis): πῦρ, Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17; Mark 9:43, and R G L brackets in 45. (Often in Homer; πῦρ ἄσβ. of the perpetual fire of Vesta, Dionysius Halicarnassus, Antiquities 1, 76; [of the fire on the altar, Philo de ebriet. § 34 (Mang. i. 378); de vict. off. § 5 (Mang. 2:254); of the fire of the magi, Strabo 15 (3) 15; see also Plutarch, symp. 50:7, probl. 4; Aelian nat. an. 5, 3; cf. Heinichen on Eusebius, h. e. 6, 41, 15].)
It seems to me that the Greek bears out the fact that the fires of hell are unquenchable.
I am certainly not blind to anything that has been presented in the way of substantiating the doctrines of the UR.
I'm not even discussing UR in this thread. We've been discussing faith and justification.
Quote:
I am simply aware of the verses and passages that show the doctrines of the UR to be false.
That's probably with someone else.
Quote:
If you can give me an answer to the following, I may even convert:
Mar 9:42, And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Mar 9:43, And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45, And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.
Mar 9:46, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47, And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Do you have an answer for this?
Yes, Jesus is speaking spiritually of the "flesh" (by using the terms: hand, foot and eye). Paul refers to the "flesh" as the "natural man", the "old man", the "carnal nature" of the soul, throughout his epistles. And that flesh, if not crucified (cutoff from the soul) in this world (Rom 6:6, Gal 2:20), will be cutoff from the soul in judgment, and by fire, in the world to come (Mat 7:21-23, Mat 25:46, Rev 20:11-15, etc).
And when that judgment occurs, the "old man" is cast into the Lake of Fire, forever, in a fire of righteousness and purification that cannot be quenched. It will allow all (now having mercy) to see who they once were, but no longer are, in Christ.
I'm not even discussing UR in this thread. We've been discussing faith and justification.
That's probably with someone else.
Yes, Jesus is speaking spiritually of the "flesh" (by using the terms: hand, foot and eye). Paul refers to the "flesh" as the "natural man", the "old man", the "carnal nature" of the soul, throughout his epistles. And that flesh, if not crucified (cutoff from the soul) in this world (Rom 6:6, Gal 2:20), will be cutoff from the soul in judgment, and by fire, in the world to come (Mat 7:21-23, Mat 25:46, Rev 20:11-15, etc).
And when that judgment occurs, the "old man" is cast into the Lake of Fire, forever, in a fire of righteousness and purification that cannot be quenched. It will allow all (now having mercy) to see who they once were, but no longer are, in Christ.
I'm not even discussing UR in this thread. We've been discussing faith and justification.
That's probably with someone else.
Yes, Jesus is speaking spiritually of the "flesh" (by using the terms: hand, foot and eye). Paul refers to the "flesh" as the "natural man", the "old man", the "carnal nature" of the soul, throughout his epistles. And that flesh, if not crucified (cutoff from the soul) in this world (Rom 6:6, Gal 2:20), will be cutoff from the soul in judgment, and by fire, in the world to come (Mat 7:21-23, Mat 25:46, Rev 20:11-15, etc).
And when that judgment occurs, the "old man" is cast into the Lake of Fire, forever, in a fire of righteousness and purification that cannot be quenched. It will allow all (now having mercy) to see who they once were, but no longer are, in Christ.
I'm not even discussing UR in this thread. We've been discussing faith and justification.
That's probably with someone else.
Yes, Jesus is speaking spiritually of the "flesh" (by using the terms: hand, foot and eye). Paul refers to the "flesh" as the "natural man", the "old man", the "carnal nature" of the soul, throughout his epistles. And that flesh, if not crucified (cutoff from the soul) in this world (Rom 6:6, Gal 2:20), will be cutoff from the soul in judgment, and by fire, in the world to come (Mat 7:21-23, Mat 25:46, Rev 20:11-15, etc).
And when that judgment occurs, the "old man" is cast into the Lake of Fire, forever, in a fire of righteousness and purification that cannot be quenched. It will allow all (now having mercy) to see who they once were, but no longer are, in Christ.
So, you're saying that the fire that never be quenched will not be felt by the person who is cast into hell; because it is only their flesh that is cast there and not their soul and spirit.
1) This reeks of gnosticism; and,
2) Why then is there "wailing and gnashing of teeth" in that furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50)?
So, you're saying that the fire that never be quenched will not be felt by the person who is cast into hell; because it is only their flesh that is cast there and not their soul and spirit.
1) This reeks of gnosticism; and,
2) Why then is there "wailing and gnashing of teeth" in that furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50)?
Regret and remorse, something I am confident you and Charlie will face, I'm afraid! You really need to learn what faith actually is and which is more important, faith hope or love.
Jde 1:3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jde 1:4, For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
You are not contending for the faith, rather you are pushing people away in ignorance.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
