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Mystic very seldom in scripture does being born refer to the woman, it is used mostly of men. Just look at all the begats in the scriptures.
Now you look at this birth cannot happen until our physical death, this would be after the natural and not the spiritual.
The moment God breathes the breath of life into us we are born of God and the battle starts over whether you will follow the life of the flesh, that of the bondwoman, or the life of the spirit, that of the freewoman.
But*he*who was*of*the bondwoman*was*born*after*the flesh;*but*he of*the freewoman*was*by*promise.
This battle is raging within us even now for that which is born after the flesh persecutes him that is born after the spirit.
But*as*then*he that was*born*after*the flesh*persecuted*him*that was*born*after*the Spirit,*even*so*it is*now.
When God breathes the breath of life into us it is the birth of the incorruptible seed that grows and gives us strength to overcome the world.
Seeing ye have purified*your*souls*in*obeying*the truth*through*the Spirit*unto*unfeigned*love of the brethren,*see that ye*love*one another*with*a pure*heart*fervently:
Being born again,*not*of*corruptible*seed,*but*of incorruptible,*by*the word*of God,*which liveth*and*abideth*for*ever.
Whosoever*believeth*that*Jesus*is*the Christ*is*born*of*God:*and*every one*that loveth*him that begat*loveth*him also*that is begotten*of*him.
For*whatsoever*is*born*of*God*overcometh*the world:*and*this*is*the victory*that overcometh*the world,*even*our*faith.
Sorry, pneuma, the exegesis of "gennao" is clear. When it references a woman it refers to birth, when it references a male it refers to conception. They are not the same. Conception starts a pregnancy and birth ends one. When you can flit around like the wind in your physical body, I will believe you are "born again" of the Spirit.
What you're not receiving is what Jesus said. Jesus did not say that the Pharisees were "born again", for if they were they would "see" the Kingdom within.
Jesus said "the Kingdom of God is within you". The Pharisees were unable to "see" the Kingdom and were therefore unable to "enter into" the Kingdom (Joh 3:3, 5). Their inability to "see" the Kingdom within does not negate the existence of that Kingdom.
The Kingdom is not within the "flesh", the carnal nature of man, where the Pharisees were living. But rather in their "spirit", where they did not live, could not "see" and where they could not "enter into". And, the very reason Jesus taught the need to be born again (Joh 3:7).
I think that you are being deliberately vague here?
It should be clear that the kingdom of God did not dwell within the hearts of the scribes and Pharisees; because their hearts were full of all uncleanness so that Jesus likened them to whitened tombs which appear beautiful outwardly but are within full of dead men's bones.
But the kingdom does dwell in those of us who believe in Jesus; and in us He has done the work of cleansing and purifying our hearts so that we are clean on the inside.
I think that you are being deliberately vague here?
It should be clear that the kingdom of God did not dwell within the hearts of the scribes and Pharisees; because their hearts were full of all uncleanness so that Jesus likened them to whitened tombs which appear beautiful outwardly but are within full of dead men's bones.
But the kingdom does dwell in those of us who believe in Jesus; and in us He has done the work of cleansing and purifying our hearts so that we are clean on the inside.
Since Jesus, God's Holy Spirit abides within us as the Comforter sent in Christ's name to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts." He is not exclusive (He got to me as an avowed atheist) and not only to those who claim Him. But He is useless to those who IGNORE Him, which you and Charlie do. That should worry you, but it does not seem to.
I think that you are being deliberately vague here?
It should be clear that the kingdom of God did not dwell within the hearts of the scribes and Pharisees; because their hearts were full of all uncleanness so that Jesus likened them to whitened tombs which appear beautiful outwardly but are within full of dead men's bones.
But the kingdom does dwell in those of us who believe in Jesus; and in us He has done the work of cleansing and purifying our hearts so that we are clean on the inside.
The text doesn't say "within the hearts" of the scribes and Pharisees. So why raise a straw man argument to contradict what Jesus said?
I believe the reason you make such an argument is because you're not able to hear and believe what Jesus said: That the Kingdom of God is within you. And, I've already given reasons why this is so.
Since Jesus, God's Holy Spirit abides within us as the Comforter sent in Christ's name to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts." He is not exclusive (He got to me as an avowed atheist) and not only to those who claim Him. But He is useless to those who IGNORE Him, which you and Charlie do. That should worry you, but it does not seem to.
Mystic there is a question I would like an answer for, a simple yes or no and then the explanation please!
Are we all saved by the fact of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ?
Since Jesus, God's Holy Spirit abides within us as the Comforter sent in Christ's name to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts." He is not exclusive (He got to me as an avowed atheist) and not only to those who claim Him. But He is useless to those who IGNORE Him, which you and Charlie do. That should worry you, but it does not seem to.
No, we do not ignore Him.
But we do accept that He has chosen to preserve the record of His will in the gospel, in the pages of holy scripture; and we do also look to the scriptures as being the ultimate authority as to what is God's revelation to mankind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjGuru
The text doesn't say "within the hearts" of the scribes and Pharisees. So why raise a straw man argument to contradict what Jesus said?
I believe the reason you make such an argument is because you're not able to hear and believe what Jesus said: That the Kingdom of God is within you. And, I've already given reasons why this is so.
So, "within you" is not referring to "within your hearts"?
What part of us is Jesus referring to when He says that the kingdom of God is within us, if not our hearts?
Is the heart excluded from what Jesus identifies as being "within us"?
But we do accept that He has chosen to preserve the record of His will in the gospel, in the pages of holy scripture; and we do also look to the scriptures as being the ultimate authority as to what is God's revelation to mankind.
But you DO ignore the HolySpirit of agape love and forgiveness as revealed by Jesus on the Cross. You do not test the spirit of the scriptures which makes them superior to the Holy Spirit. But they are NOT the ultimate authority or the Truth, Jesus Christ as the Holy Spirit of God IS the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You remove His authority and replace it with the scriptures at your own peril.
Again, Mystic, Jesus indirectly gave the ultimate authority to all of holy scripture when he substantiated Peter in John 14:26, 16:13.
Because Peter gave credence to Paul in 2 Peter 3:15-16;
And Paul gave credence to the authority of the rest of the Bible in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.
And also, the apostles who penned the original New Testament were indeed tested (Revelation 2:2) and found to be true apostles.
A good tree does not bear bad fruit; so, because these apostles were true, it can be concluded that their fruit (what they penned in the holy scriptures) was good, and does not need to be tested against some kind of standard wherein you deny the justice and judgment of God.
I think that you are being deliberately vague here?
It should be clear that the kingdom of God did not dwell within the hearts of the scribes and Pharisees; because their hearts were full of all uncleanness so that Jesus likened them to whitened tombs which appear beautiful outwardly but are within full of dead men's bones.
But the kingdom does dwell in those of us who believe in Jesus; and in us He has done the work of cleansing and purifying our hearts so that we are clean on the inside.
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