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Oh, I understand what you are saying, I just reject it! Your interpreting has proven to be a picking of what you will believe.
But what is not to your liking is not accepted.
I'll not have any of that, it's all the scripture accepted or none at all!
I've had enough for today! Rest well, see you tomorrow, God willing!
The bold is not true, Charlie. You seem unable to determine what is compatible and consistent with God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness because that is what I use to decide what has been correctly interpreted in the Bible. To give you the benefit of the doubt, your repeating this lie seems to result from your inability to do that kind of evaluation of compatibility with the Holy Spirit so you think it must be the result of what I like or do not like.
The bold is not true, Charlie. You seem unable to determine what is compatible and consistent with God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness because that is what I use to decide what has been correctly interpreted in the Bible. To give you the benefit of the doubt, your repeating this lie seems to result from your inability to do that kind of evaluation of compatibility with the Holy Spirit so you think it must be the result of what I like or do not like.
Now Mystic, I have taken you as a serious and honest person thus far!
Don't change that opinion I have developed!
Everyone here knows you accept some of the scripture and some you reject!
Let's at least continue to be honest with one another.
The bold is not true, Charlie. You seem unable to determine what is compatible and consistent with God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness because that is what I use to decide what has been correctly interpreted in the Bible. To give you the benefit of the doubt, your repeating this lie seems to result from your inability to do that kind of evaluation of compatibility with the Holy Spirit so you think it must be the result of what I like or do not like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24
Now Mystic, I have taken you as a serious and honest person thus far!
Don't change that opinion I have developed!
Everyone here knows you accept some of the scripture and some you reject!
Let's at least continue to be honest with one another.
I am being honest with you Charlie. I give you the benefit of the doubt because I don't want to think you deliberately lie about my views. I CORRECT the misinterpretations of what the scriptures mean about God's motives from wrath and vengeance to agape love and forgiveness. That changes most of the verses you interpret under the veil based on wrath and vengeance from reading the OT and Moses. I just lift the veil and interpret them according to Christ's Holy Spirit.
I am being honest with you Charlie. I give you the benefit of the doubt because I don't want to think you deliberately lie about my views. I CORRECT the misinterpretations of what the scriptures mean about God's motives from wrath and vengeance to agape love and forgiveness. That changes most of the verses you interpret under the veil based on wrath and vengeance from reading the OT and Moses. I just lift the veil and interpret them according to Christ's Holy Spirit.
That is not lifting the veil, Mystic! Scripture has a theme, when one reads all of it and can see that Christ is virtually on every page of the Old Testament, it becomes obvious what runs against the grain.
It is also clear to the Bible student that the New Testament reveals what was once hidden from men in the Old. This is the way God has chosen to redeem man. The entire theme is Christ and God's way of redeeming man.
Once this becomes clear, anything that rubs against the grain of that theme is to be put under the spotlight. It is to be examined to see why it rubs against the grain.
I'm sorry to say, Mystic, much of what you are teaching rubs against that grain!
That is not lifting the veil, Mystic! Scripture has a theme, when one reads all of it and can see that Christ is virtually on every page of the Old Testament, it becomes obvious what runs against the grain.
It is also clear to the Bible student that the New Testament reveals what was once hidden from men in the Old. This is the way God has chosen to redeem man. The entire theme is Christ and God's way of redeeming man.
Once this becomes clear, anything that rubs against the grain of that theme is to be put under the spotlight. It is to be examined to see why it rubs against the grain.
I'm sorry to say, Mystic, much of what you are teaching rubs against that grain!
Of course, it does, because that theme is WRONG, Charlie. There was nothing we did that needed to be forgiven, just corrected. Our ancestors were spiritual infants and the Bible chronicles our early spiritual childhood and the lessons each individual has to learn beginning with the very first one in the Eden story. We had to learn there was a need to discriminate among our urges and drives and control the ones that were NOT good. That is what the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was about - our first and most important spiritual lesson. We are spirits in physical bodies that have to mature by learning to discriminate and control our animal drives.
The THEME that we should be reading the Bible under is one of a loving Father teaching His children to become independent loving adults in a hostile world. Under that theme, our spiritual birth and infancy began with our first "slap on our spiritual behind" in Eden. The idea that God would hold malice, wrath, and vengeance against His newly created infant spirits from their first spiritual lesson is ridiculous. That He would curse them and all their descendants for it is utterly preposterous! Your interpretations are the ones that go against the grain, Charlie.
Of course, it does, because that theme is WRONG, Charlie. There was nothing we did that needed to be forgiven, just corrected. Our ancestors were spiritual infants and the Bible chronicles our early spiritual childhood and the lessons each individual has to learn beginning with the very first one in the Eden story. We had to learn there was a need to discriminate among our urges and drives and control the ones that were NOT good. That is what the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was about - our first and most important spiritual lesson. We are spirits in physical bodies that have to mature by learning to discriminate and control our animal drives.
The THEME that we should be reading the Bible under is one of a loving Father teaching His children to become independent loving adults in a hostile world. Under that theme, our spiritual birth and infancy began with our first "slap on our spiritual behind" in Eden. The idea that God would hold malice, wrath, and vengeance against His newly created infant spirits from their first spiritual lesson is ridiculous. That He would curse them and all their descendants for it is utterly preposterous! Your interpretations are the ones that go against the grain, Charlie.
Exactly to the tee, the opposite that scripture teaches!
To even think, "There was nothing we did that needed to be forgiven" is a mockery of the scripture and of our Christ! To think that we do not need forgiveness but just correction goes against everything The Cross of Christ stands for in the Christian faith!
I don't know what brought you to this place, but I hope to God no one else follows you there!
Exactly to the tee, the opposite that scripture teaches!
To even think, "There was nothing we did that needed to be forgiven" is a mockery of the scripture and of our Christ! To think that we do not need forgiveness but just correction goes against everything The Cross of Christ stands for in the Christian faith!
I don't know what brought you to this place, but I hope to God no one else follows you there!
Unfortunately, I know what brought you and most of the others where you are and it is a travesty of primitive human ignorance, spiritual immaturity, irrationally, and superstition that has been maintained as a sign of faith in God by Machiavellian religious leaders for power and control over the masses.
sorry for the late response, I have many times, read and understand what these verses mean. first (Isa. 59:2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear). if we willfully sin, Jehovah does NOT acknowledge us. remember he turned his back (sorta speak), on the Israelites, (his people), when they chose to disobey and sin against him. they wasn't dead, they were still living. so their sins was NOT paid.
here at (Romans 8:38,39 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come. nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord). Paul was simply stating to his Spiritual Brothers, to not allow anything to pull them away from Jehovah God and Jesus.
(Matt. 13:41,42, 49) speaks of The Angels gathering those who practice lawlessness. and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth). a furnace is NOT the same as the false teaching of a "HELLFIRE". which is said to be a place beneath the Earth where demons reside. but it does represent FIRE! here at (Matt. 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life”). said NOTHING about a "HELLFIRE." this means total destruction or dead forever. since MANY will be resurrected back to Earth , (1Cor. 15:21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man).
Mark 9:42-48 speaks of cutting off a hand, a foot ,and plucking out an eye. in order NOT to sins and go into the fire that shall never be quenched where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched if it causes one to sin. (to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched). sadly MANY wants to believe that Jesus and his Father created a fiery place for the wicked dead. they don't see or understand the verses or what Jesus and others really meant. this is why we need to be taught accurately. have you ever heard of someone who lost an eye, have no hands or feet, NOT sin? the removal of these parts, won't stop ANYONE from sinning, Jesus KNOWS THIS!
then this verse mentioned "WORM", are there worms in this supposedly fiery place too? Jesus and Jehovah God speaks in a way that we could understand. if they spoke the way they understood, we wouldn't understand. because they speak and think differently than humans. they know that humans understand, FIRE..DESTROYS! Jesus also at times spoke NOT in a literal sense. he knows that he NOR his Father created a fiery place for the dead. because as I post which is clear to understand. Jehovah God said one PAYS for his Sins once he had died, the "wages for SIN IS DEATH." they would NOT says you have PAID for you sins once you died. then turn right around and said...I'm still burning you forever! that's something satan would say and do. just like he has MANY believing this lie. and Jonah already said what "HELL" was to him. a place where he would die, the fish's belly!
if we do research we would see that the word "HELL" replaced the words Sheol and Hades. man said hades is a place of torturing the dead. but then some say it's a place for the dead. NOT a FIERY place! either way, "HELL" is a place for ALL dead, GOOD AND BAD! wicked and Righteous. it's just a resting place for the dead. lastly, (Rom. 11:9,10 Paul is referring to those who would reject Jesus and be stumbled. still this verse also didn't make any reference to a Hellfire or dead being tortured forever. Jehovah speaks of the consequences of adding or removing from his true words. satan tried to have man remove Jehovah's Name from ALL Bible versions. it's NOT hard for him to get man to add or change Jesus true words. you can best believe Just as Jonah didn't use the actual word "HELL" , Neither did Jesus! peace
This is simply false teaching that wicked men will place their trust in so that they will never repent and believe in what Jesus did for them on the Cross.
Consider what is written in Ezekiel.
Eze 13:21, Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 13:22, Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Eze 13:23, Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
I don't know what brought you to this place, but I hope to God no one else follows you there!
But you DO know what brought me to this place, Charlie -- Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness on the Cross. I am Christian and He is God who has no such wrath or vengeance in Him, so what you and Moses say about Him as a wrathful vengeful God who needed blood sacrifices to forgive us for "whatever" simply can NOT be true!
But you DO know what brought me to this place, Charlie -- Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness on the Cross. I am Christian and He is God who has no such wrath or vengeance in Him, so what you and Moses say about Him as a wrathful vengeful God who needed blood sacrifices to forgive us for "whatever" simply can NOT be true!
Beyond a shadow of a doubt you deny the atonement of Christ for the forgiveness of sins!
And you tell us that you know Jesus and have the Spirit of God?
Better go tell that to someone who has never read the scripture!
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