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But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God/elohim, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
as I keep pointing out Jesus is a part of the elohim and is not the ONE God who is our Father. they are distinct individuals
this is made plain in the very next verse.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
these scripture are all talking about a hierarchy within the elohim and the Father is the highest of them all
The Trinitarian doctrine doesn't teach that Jesus is the Father. You create a straw man and then try to knock it down. Jesus is God, but he is not the Father. God is a united one. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the one God. Three 'persons' who are united as one. This should not be difficult to understand. As the song goes - God in three persons, blessed Trinity.
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the one Elohim who is above all the other elohim.
Actually JoJo, Jesus goes into great detail to clarify that 'He and the Father are ONE' : 8Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
Jn 14:8-11
Pretty clear.
So let me ask you JoJo, the same think Jesus asked Philip: How is the the Father, Living IN Jesus, and Jesus living IN the Father unless THEY are One?
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
We also according to the scriptures will be ONE with the Father and the son which is saying we will be a part of the elohim. That does not make any of us God the Father and it blows the trinity idea out of the water.
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
We also according to the scriptures will be ONE with the Father and the son which is saying we will be a part of the elohim. That does not make any of us God the Father and it blows the trinity idea out of the water.
You can't get anything through your head. The Trinitarian doctrine doesn't teach that the Son is the Father. It teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one God.
There's no way this will get settled on a site like this. All the discussion in the world won't change a person's viewpoint.
Only by separating oneself from what the church and religion teaches, can one begin a chance to read the scripture's without intervening and corrupting influence. If you get rid of everything you know, and read the gospels in a fresh light, you can clearly see by Jesus' words - and communications with God the Father - what his relationship actually is. And there will be the answer, found inwardly, with the help of the spirit.
And by the way, scripture saying I and God (Jesus and God) are one, doesn't mean of the same essence and same being. It means of the same will, accord, and plans. Kind of like husband and wife being "one". Obviously, not literally, but symbolically. Again, the church and religion like to tamper and toy with scripture to change it's meaning, either accidentally or on purpose (the latter by repetition).
Jesus never intended for churches, groups, and organizations to compete with his teachings, and especially to overrule / contradict them.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 09-27-2021 at 09:42 AM..
Don't be one of the "ignorant and unstable", and don't be one of the "lawless people":
"There are some things in [Paul's epistles] that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability." ~ 2 Peter 3:16-17
There's no way this will get settled on a site like this. All the discussion in the world won't change a person's viewpoint.
Only by separating oneself from what the church and religion teaches, can one begin a chance to read the scripture's without intervening and corrupting influence. If you get rid of everything you know, and read the gospels in a fresh light, you can clearly see by Jesus' words - and communications with God the Father - what his relationship actually is. And there will be the answer, found inwardly, with the help of the spirit.
LOL, it's just the opposite actually, as the current splintered state of Christianity makes obvious; in addition to your own status as Pope Thoreau CDXXIV of the one-member Church of Thoreau.
LOL, it's just the opposite actually, as the current splintered state of Christianity makes obvious
There is no "splintered state" of Christianity. Jesus and his teachings (as reflected in scripture) are as healthy as they were the first time they were taught, and put down in writing. And neither God nor Jesus are "splintered" either.
As for people calling themselves "Christians", and churches masquerading as reflecting Jesus' teachings, that's certainly dysfunctional and splintered. But that's man's stuff and man's failings. Just more examples of humanity's flaws. If you every read the Bible, you would have plenty of examples of that.
Apparently though, you can't separate the two.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 09-27-2021 at 10:04 AM..
First of all, I'm not missing anything. Secondly, I'm just going to post the following which asks the question ''The Gods of Psalm 82: Human or Divine?'' and then considers both sides of the issue.
There is no "splintered state" of Christianity. Jesus and his teachings (as reflected in scripture) are as healthy as they were the first time they were taught, or put down in writing.
As for people calling themselves "Christians", and churches masquerading as reflecting Jesus' teachings, that's certainly dysfunctional and splintered. But that's man's stuff and man's failings. Just the same old stuff; humanity is broken and lost, compared to the divine and the perfected.
Apparently though, you can't separate the two.
"Me and Jesus". Have you ever tried to make friends with someone and then bad-mouthed their spouse? I'm sure you haven't because you're a decent person. But how long do you think that friendship would last if you did?
You can't have Jesus without His Bride.
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