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....Show me where Jesus commanded it.
I gave you the Scriptures that state it plainly in repeated places that Jesus baptizes with the Spirit. Why do you neglect this?
I find in Scripture that Jesus commanded John the Baptist to baptise him.
After Jesus came up out of being submerged in the water, then God's spirit rested on Jesus.
Jesus commanded baptism at Matthew 28:18-20 and that is why the Ethiopian official was baptised in water.
Jesus was baptized in water for a specific purpose specified in John 1:29-35... it was for identification purposes. It was not an example.
Jesus never taught or told anyone to be baptized in water. Water baptism was always identified with John the Baptist.
John's Baptism was actually NDE. Submerge under water with a slight delay of coming out, Jesus noted 'by 'violence ' entering the Kingdom. "make straight paths for him"
Some people sure do work hard to avoid doing what Jesus did. That's how I see it.
My brother was absolutely determined not to be baptized. He may still not be baptized, I don't know. It has nothing to do with whether or not he considers himself a Christian by the way. He just dug his heels in and decided not to do it. Well, alrighty then.
People are not saying it is wrong to baptise though
They are saying that the water baptism has symbolic meaning over and above the physical act
The physical act is not really the end point, and we are at the stage where we need be applying things and not just following the rituals and fables that are given to children by rote
Everyone is bringing something different to the table relating to baptism, from their own diverse different perspective (which has been set up that way by design)
Your brother’s part is just not in that area, we all have different parts depending on what part of the body we are affiliated with/what part they identify with
1Co 1:12**Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13**Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14**I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15**Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16**And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17**For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
We are at the end of the 2000 year period (latter days) and what I see is a continuum that was set in motion starting at Apostles and ending in diversity of tongues
1Co 12:18**But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19**And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20**But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:27**Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28**And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29**Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30**Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31**But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
People are not saying it is wrong to baptise though
They are saying that the water baptism has symbolic meaning over and above the physical act
The physical act is not really the end point, and we are at the stage where we need be applying things and not just following the rituals and fables that are given to children by rote
Everyone is bringing something different to the table relating to baptism, from their own diverse different perspective (which has been set up that way by design)
Your brother’s part is just not in that area, we all have different parts depending on what part of the body we are affiliated with
1Co 1:12**Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13**Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14**I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15**Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16**And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17**For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
I know people personally who refuse to be baptized. I mean, REFUSE it. Not because they aren't Christians but because they think it's a waste of time and effort apparently.
People are not saying it is wrong to baptise though
They are saying that the water baptism has symbolic meaning over and above the physical act
The physical act is not really the end point, and we are at the stage where we need be applying things and not just following the rituals and fables that are given to children by rote
Everyone is bringing something different to the table relating to baptism, from their own diverse different perspective (which has been set up that way by design)
Your brother’s part is just not in that area, we all have different parts depending on what part of the body we are affiliated with
1Co 1:12**Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13**Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14**I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15**Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16**And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17**For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
And what I said was that some people sure do seem determined to avoid it, for whatever reasons.
And what I said was that some people sure do seem determined to avoid it, for whatever reasons.
I try not to be judgemental of others, we are not privy to what motivates them and why they are against it however I would hazard a guess that for some it has to do with the force and control that is being given along with the baptism- when you publicly get baptised you are aligning yourself with that denomination, committing to learning their rites, their perspective, be under their “headship” so to speak
What I see is great diversity in Christianity by design
I find in Scripture that Jesus commanded John the Baptist to baptise him.
After Jesus came up out of being submerged in the water, then God's spirit rested on Jesus.
Jesus commanded baptism at Matthew 28:18-20 and that is why the Ethiopian official was baptised in water.
The reason John baptized him is here. It wasn't for salvation. It wasn't as an example. It was for identification purposes. That's what John said.
John also said that Jesus would baptize in the Holy Spirit - not water.
John 1:29-34
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ 31 I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” 32 John testified saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.”
In Matthew 28, Jesus' main command was to go and make disciples. Part of that command was baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit.
Matthew 28:19-20 - Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Are you reading the words? It is in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit.
This is not baptizing the flesh in water and mouthing the words. This is about identification and a real spiritual immersion. And if you notice in other scriptures, the Spirit is described in water-like terms.
John 7:37-38 - Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Titus 3:5-6 - He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Jesus baptizes our spirits with the living water of the Holy Spirit.
The reason John baptized him is here. It wasn't for salvation. It wasn't as an example. It was for identification purposes. That's what John said.
John also said that Jesus would baptize in the Holy Spirit - not water.
John 1:29-34
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ 31 I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” 32 John testified saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.”
In Matthew 28, Jesus' main command was to go and make disciples. Part of that command was baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit.
Matthew 28:19-20 - Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Are you reading the words? It is in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit.
This is not baptizing the flesh in water and mouthing the words. This is about identification and a real spiritual immersion. And if you notice in other scriptures, the Spirit is described in water-like terms.
John 7:37-38 - Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Titus 3:5-6 - He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Jesus baptizes our spirits with the living water of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, I totally agree about the identification and naming
Regardless of your beliefs, please answer this - why do some people fight so stringently against baptism?
Not sure about others...
I'm not fighting against baptism. I am fighting for the truth.
The truth is baptism in water does nothing for salvation.
Last edited by DRob4JC; 10-23-2021 at 01:55 PM..
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