Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Then you get Paul expounding on the universality of the gospel
1Co 9:16**For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1Co 9:17**For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
1Co 9:18**What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
1Co 9:19**For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20**And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21**To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22**To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23**And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
And In Galatians he describes how God separated him from his mother’s womb (and I’m pretty sure that wasn’t about his literal, physical birth as a literal baby either)
Gal 1:13**For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Gal 1:14**And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15**But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16**To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
I think so since no one is born again apart from hearing the gospel message.
Opinions are being given on this thread regarding what Jesus meant when he told Nicodemus that unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. It must be remembered that Nicodemus was a Pharisee and for a Pharisee water had three different spiritual conotations.
1. To a Pharisee water could mean salvation as in Isaiah 55:1.
2. To a Pharisee water could mean the water of the word as in Ephesians 5:26
3. To a Pharisee water could mean the water of the Holy Spirit as in John 7:38-39.
In John 3:5 water cannot be referring to the water of the Holy Spirit since water is being distinguished from the Holy Spirit.
Nor can water be referring to salvation in John 3:5 since being 'born' is a reference to salvation. It would like saying that one must be born by being born. It wouldn't make sense.
In my view Jesus was telling Nicodemus that one must be born by means of the Gospel. 1 Peter 1:23 and Ephesians 5:26 support this.
But what do I know?
Sounds to me like you know more than most folks who've been posting on this subject.
Born again .... born from above, I’m pretty most people are actually meaning the same thing
why? 'above' is the word. Dove is Spirit from 'above' not 'again'.
27John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven."
31He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. 33Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true."
why? 'above' is the word. Dove is Spirit from 'above' not 'again'.
27John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven."
31He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. 33Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true."
People know that Christianity is not just about this “earthly” “temporal” domain
But there is a connection between the upper and lower, and the born again/born from above is about the resurrection, the raising up again, the rebirth - which is of that ‘above’ that gives life to the ‘flesh’
People know that Christianity is not about this “earthly” “temporal” domain
But there is a connection between the upper and lower, and the born again is about the resurrection, the raising up again, the rebirth - which is of that ‘above’ that gives life to the ‘flesh’
born from spirit is spirit, is there any room for 'again'?
born from spirit is spirit, is there any room for 'again'?
yes I believe so
That word does not mean ‘above’ as such, it has to do with beginning, the first, the top
G509***(Strong)
ἄνωθεν
anōthen
an'-o-then
From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.
check out the other uses
Here is a couple where ‘above’ does not fit:-
Luk 1:3**It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
Gal 4:8**Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9**But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Baptism has to do with repentance and creates a new beginning
I haven't missed anything. I simply replied to your claim that ''At the time of our immersion in water, we are forgiven and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'' I directed your attention to the fact that neither the Gentiles nor the Samaritans received the Holy Spirit when they were water baptized. Only the Jews were told that they would receive the Holy Spirit when they were water baptized and this had to do with their involvement with rejecting Jesus as the Messiah and handing him over to the Romans to be crucified.
The Gentiles received the Holy Spirit before being water baptized and the Samaritans didn't receive the Holy Spirit when they were water baptized but had to wait until Peter and John arrived to lay hands on them. The reason for this was because the Jews hated the Samaritans and would not have believed that they were part of the church. So two apostles - Peter and John had to come and lay hands on the Samaritan believers to demonstrate to the Jewish believers that they were in fact part of the church.
Other than the Jewish and Samaritan exceptions all Church-age believers receive the Holy Spirit at the moment they believe in Christ just as the Gentile believers in Acts 10 did. Not when they get baptized in water which is simply a ritual which illustrates what happens at the real baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is both a teaching aid and a public declaration of one's faith.
There is a difference between receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, (the indwelling) which is given at immersion in water (Acts 2:38) and having the Apostles lay their hands on the Samaritans to confer spiritual gifts. The Apostles did not have the power to baptize with the Holy Spirit. Jesus, and Jesus alone, baptized with the Holy Spirit. I suggest you do a study on all the various phrases concerning the Holy Spirit. (being filled with, baptized with, etc.). Dare to challenge your current beliefs. None of us is above believing incorrectly. It wasn’t until I did an in depth study, without the aid of commentaries, on all things concerning the Holy Spirit, that I was finally able to understand the various ways He is presented to us in Scripture.
If you think that all believers receive the Holy Spirit the moment they believe, then you must also believe the demons do. As James said, even the demons believe.
Where in the story of Cornelius does it say he was saved before he was immersed in water? If speaking in tongues is evidence of salvation, then I guess you must also think that when Caiaphas, the high priest, prophesied while plotting the death of Jesus, was also evidence of his salvation. Saul, too, prophesied while plotting to murder David. Do you believe this was evidence of his salvation also? And how about the little donkey that spoke in tongues?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
