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The Bible says this maam: (1 Peter 3:21) . . .Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
But although most are baptized, few are saved according to Jesus Mat 7:14. It is a public demonstration of your faith Kate. James points out that faith and works, is what saves, which Jesus pointed out in his parable of the talents.
Thank you for responding to my OP.
IMHO, baptism is a response to faith, just as repentance and confessing Jesus is the Son of God before men is.
Let me rephrase my question. I believe and teach that immersion in water is necessary for salvation. Why do some say this is works based salvation?
May I ask you where in the Scriptures does it say that baptism is a public demonstration? My understanding of Scripture is that baptism is for the remission of sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And as 1 Peter 3:21 says, baptism now saves you also. As with Noah, we, too, are brought safely through the water by the resurrection of Jesus.
Some people sure do work hard to avoid doing what Jesus did. That's how I see it.
My brother was absolutely determined not to be baptized. He may still not be baptized, I don't know. It has nothing to do with whether or not he considers himself a Christian by the way. He just dug his heels in and decided not to do it. Well, alrighty then.
I’m sorry Kathryn. A member of my family is the same way. All we can do is pray for them.
I gave you the Scriptures that state it plainly in repeated places that Jesus baptizes with the Spirit. Why do you neglect this?
Yes, John said Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit. You say that when Jesus commissioned His disciples to baptize all nations that He meant baptize them with the Holy Spirit, and not water. However, if you are honest with yourself, Matthew 28:19 does not say that. Neither does it say baptize with water. It simply says go baptize.
However, John said Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit. But Nowhere did he say MEN would baptize with the Holy Spirit. The Apostles, and they alone, were given power to lay their hands on others to confer spiritual gifts (Acts 19:5), but to baptize with the Holy Spirit was unique to Jesus, and only Jesus.
I mean no offense here, but I suggest you do an in depth study of the various phrases used about the Holy Spirit (filled with the Spirit, baptized with or in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit came upon them, fell upon them, etc.). I did this using nothing but a concordance. I prayed for God to give me an open and honest heart, and I learned a great deal from doing it. I can tell you, it changed my mind about what I had been taught.
Phillip was a man filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 6). It was the Holy Spirit who led Phillip to the eunuch, who just happened to be in the DESERT. After Philip explains the passage to the eunuch, lo and behold, there is water! The eunuch says here’s water. What’s to stop me from being baptized?
You don’t think God the Holy Spirit had anything to do with this immersion in water? How did the eunuch know to be immersed in water if Phillip hadn’t preached it?
Not to mention 1 Peter 3:18-22 where the Holy Spirit, through Peter, connects Noah being saved through water with us being saved through the waters of baptism by the resurrection of Jesus.
After one's baptism, I suppose Matthew 24:14; 28:18-20; Acts 1:8 could be considered as doing a ' spiritual work '.
It has nothing necessarily to do with any material work but the fruit of one's lips - Hebrews 13:15
Since one must have biblical knowledge before one dedicates oneself to God 'before' baptism then it is a spiritual work of Bible study and Bible research leading up to presenting oneself for Baptism.
I think of baptism as a work of God (Col. 2:11-12).
I see it as a response to our faith or you said a spiritual work.
I have been told that because I believe baptism is necessary to be saved, then I preach a gospel of “works based salvation.” Yet, I don’t see baptism being called a work of man or human righteousness in Scripture. The works that don’t save are works of the Law.
That word does not mean ‘above’ as such, it has to do with beginning, the first, the top
G509***(Strong)
ἄνωθεν
anōthen
an'-o-then
From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.
check out the other uses
Here is a couple where ‘above’ does not fit:-
Luk 1:3**It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
Gal 4:8**Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9**But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Baptism has to do with repentance and creates a new beginning
from the start, sure, humans are spiritual beings in physical bodies and never physical beings , we come from spirit and return there. even with amnesia we remain spiritual beings. Jesus is our example of finding Dove while in physical body. it is salvation.
Nicodemus is pictured like misunderstanding what Jesus says? 10"Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?" most born again go behind Old Nic.
There is a difference between receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, (the indwelling) which is given at immersion in water (Acts 2:38) and having the Apostles lay their hands on the Samaritans to confer spiritual gifts. The Apostles did not have the power to baptize with the Holy Spirit. Jesus, and Jesus alone, baptized with the Holy Spirit. I suggest you do a study on all the various phrases concerning the Holy Spirit. (being filled with, baptized with, etc.). Dare to challenge your current beliefs. None of us is above believing incorrectly. It wasn’t until I did an in depth study, without the aid of commentaries, on all things concerning the Holy Spirit, that I was finally able to understand the various ways He is presented to us in Scripture.
If you think that all believers receive the Holy Spirit the moment they believe, then you must also believe the demons do. As James said, even the demons believe.
Where in the story of Cornelius does it say he was saved before he was immersed in water? If speaking in tongues is evidence of salvation, then I guess you must also think that when Caiaphas, the high priest, prophesied while plotting the death of Jesus, was also evidence of his salvation. Saul, too, prophesied while plotting to murder David. Do you believe this was evidence of his salvation also? And how about the little donkey that spoke in tongues?
You haven't understood one thing that I've said and you don't understand what you're reading in the Bible. Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit (the indwelling of the Holy Spirit) is occurs the moment that a person places his faith in Christ Jesus just as it did for the Gentile believers in Acts chapter 10. And I've explained why the Samaritans did not receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit until Peter and John came and laid hands on them. Go back and read it again.
Is Acts chapter 10 so long that you couldn't read it all? Read Acts 10:44-48 which explicately states that the Holy Spirit fell on all who were listening to Peter's message and that it was after that that they got water baptized.
The demons don't believe that Jesus died for their sins, and he didn't. What the demons believe is that God is one. Big difference.
And I assure you that I understand the various ministries of the Holy Spirit. Take your own advice and dare to challenge your own beliefs because baptismal regeneration is a false teaching.
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-24-2021 at 08:07 AM..
IMHO, baptism is a response to faith, just as repentance and confessing Jesus is the Son of God before men is.
Let me rephrase my question. I believe and teach that immersion in water is necessary for salvation. Why do some say this is works based salvation?
May I ask you where in the Scriptures does it say that baptism is a public demonstration? My understanding of Scripture is that baptism is for the remission of sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And as 1 Peter 3:21 says, baptism now saves you also. As with Noah, we, too, are brought safely through the water by the resurrection of Jesus.
I am sorry maam, I am not able to provide you with a scriptural passage that supports our belief that it is a public demonstration of our faith, that is our teaching however. Baptism symbolizes death to our former course of life and a rebirth of dedication of an eternity of serving our God Jehovah. No doubt there are many who are serving God, yet not come to the point of baptism that would be saved if Jesus came tomorrow, in fact Jesus himself was 30 yrs old prior to his baptism. Baptism was relatively new in his day, not a requirement under the law covenant that I am aware of anyway.
I try not to be judgemental of others, we are not privy to what motivates them and why they are against it however I would hazard a guess that for some it has to do with the force and control that is being given along with the baptism- when you publicly get baptised you are aligning yourself with that denomination, committing to learning their rites, their perspective, be under their “headship” so to speak
What I see is great diversity in Christianity by design
That's why I am not judging others, but I can certainly wonder why some people go to such great lengths NOT to get baptized, why some people are determined not to get baptized.
My dad believed totally in predestination, to the point where he didn't consider it necessary or helpful to confess his sins to anyone, because what did it matter? He was predestined, chosen to enter heaven, regardless.
Yes, John said Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit. You say that when Jesus commissioned His disciples to baptize all nations that He meant baptize them with the Holy Spirit, and not water. However, if you are honest with yourself, Matthew 28:19 does not say that. Neither does it say baptize with water. It simply says go baptize.
However, John said Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit. But Nowhere did he say MEN would baptize with the Holy Spirit. The Apostles, and they alone, were given power to lay their hands on others to confer spiritual gifts (Acts 19:5), but to baptize with the Holy Spirit was unique to Jesus, and only Jesus.
I've got to disagree with you here, MissKate. Here's what Acts 8:14-20 says:
"Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money."
I believe in baptism by immersion for the remission of sins and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. To me, this in the order in which these things ought to be done, and I believe that the Apostles did, in fact, have the power and authority to confer the Gift of the Holy Ghost upon an individual who had been baptized by water, having first had faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and having repented of his sins.
That's why I am not judging others, but I can certainly wonder why some people go to such great lengths NOT to get baptized, why some people are determined not to get baptized.
My dad believed totally in predestination, to the point where he didn't consider it necessary or helpful to confess his sins to anyone, because what did it matter? He was predestined, chosen to enter heaven, regardless.
Yep, we are to be curious and to question
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