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Actually, the Bible is riddled with the precepts and doctrines of the men who interpreted Jesus using their belief in a wrathful and vengeful God. Jesus revealed that God is the exact OPPOSITE of wrathful and vengeful The God of Jesus is agape love and forgiveness as unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross under horrendous scourging and crucifixion.
I strongly believe in getting back to the God of Jesus. If we would all be willing to let go of the wrathful doctrines of men and simply follow the loving and forgiving God of Jesus, imagine the love and unity we would have amongst believers.
No doubt, Mystic.
What you suggest was 'outlined and textbooked' by Augustine of Hippo no less than 1600 years ago:
"Anyone who thinks that he has understood the divine scriptures or any part of them, but cannot by his understanding build up this double love of God and neighbor, has not yet succeeded in understanding them."
(#4 on link below - source from Augustine's 'On Christian Teaching 1.36.41')
I have heard many say that baptism is a “work.” How is something Jesus commanded a work? How can it be considered “works based salvation?” Can someone give Scriptural support for this teaching? Thanks in advance.
It's not a work for us.
All believers are baptized by Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:4-5, 1 Cor. 12:13), sent from heaven (1 Pet. 1:12).
Our part is spreading the gospel so that people are able to believe - and then the baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs (Eph 1:13-14).
Water not included. Both John and Luke differentiate John's baptism with water from Jesus' baptism with the Holy Spirit.
No doubt, Mystic.
What you suggest was 'outlined and textbooked' by Augustine of Hippo no less than 1600 years ago:
"Anyone who thinks that he has understood the divine scriptures or any part of them, but cannot by his understanding build up this double love of God and neighbor, has not yet succeeded in understanding them."
(#4 on link below - source from Augustine's 'On Christian Teaching 1.36.41')
Actually, I think "our best"is enough. God doesn't just measure height; he measures growth. That's an oversimplification, of course, but He knows we're incapable of a perfect or even near-perfect performance. All He expects of us is our best, and we should be happy to give Him that much after all He has done for us. We shouldn't be saying, "Well, I can't do 'enough' so why bother?" We're here to become everything that He has given us the potential to become, and that's what we should be aiming for.
No. People don’t understand what it means to God to be perfect.
“Therefore be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.” (Son of man)
He who walks in the son walks in the light and the prophets walk in the perfection of the LORD.
No. People don’t understand what it means to God to be perfect.
“Therefore be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.” (Son of man)
He who walks in the son walks in the light and the prophets walk in the perfection of the LORD.
The only perfect human is Jesus Christ, period. The word translated as "perfect" actually means "mature." You are clueless and not remotely perfect thinking that God wants parrots.
All believers are baptized by Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:4-5, 1 Cor. 12:13), sent from heaven (1 Pet. 1:12).
Our part is spreading the gospel so that people are able to believe - and then the baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs (Eph 1:13-14).
Water not included. Both John and Luke differentiate John's baptism with water from Jesus' baptism with the Holy Spirit.
At the time of our immersion in water, we are forgiven and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are immersed into the Holy Spirit at this time. We are added to the Lord’s church in that moment. There is only one baptism, not two separate ones as you have suggested.
No. People don’t understand what it means to God to be perfect.
“Therefore be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.” (Son of man)
He who walks in the son walks in the light and the prophets walk in the perfection of the LORD.
True, but no matter how you cut it, we still sin. Not a one of us is perfect. All we can do is try our best, and pray to our Father in heaven to help us succeed.
It's not off-topic at all. It's the essence of the debate. Jesus said:
Mark 3:28-29:
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Matt 12:31-32:
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
It's by the Spirit of God that I receive the earnest of my inheritance, the sealing of the Spirit. The earnest is given in my heart (2 Cor 1:21-22, Eph 1:13-14). That means I can never lose my eternal salvation, no matter what. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't; I am a slave of Jesus Christ. I am one of Christ's sheep, and He will never lose a single one (John 10:27-29). But if anyone shall say, that my salvation is not eternally secure, or that the testimony of my salvation is not of God, then such a person speaks against the Holy Spirit.
This is a matter if "in" or "out" of the kingdom of God. As Jesus said:
Matt 12:25-30:
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. 30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Sorry my friend, but OSAS is not what my OP is about. Please begin a new thread on that topic, and I will happily participate. Thank you.
Actually, the Bible is riddled with the precepts and doctrines of the men who interpreted Jesus using their belief in a wrathful and vengeful God. Jesus revealed that God is the exact OPPOSITE of wrathful and vengeful The God of Jesus is agape love and forgiveness as unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross under horrendous scourging and crucifixion.
I strongly believe in getting back to the God of Jesus. If we would all be willing to let go of the wrathful doctrines of men and simply follow the loving and forgiving God of Jesus, imagine the love and unity we would have amongst believers.
Good Morning Mystic. Your statement, “The Bible is riddled with the precepts and doctrines of men, etc.” is very broad. Can you give me some examples? Maybe then we can differentiate between them and the word of God.
Jesus preached a works based theology. Paul changed it and those who misunderstand scripture follow him.
As Jesus said; “He who believes in me shall do the works I do”
“Go and make disciples of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, AND TEACH THEM TO CARRY OUT EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU”.
Paul didn’t change Jesus’ message. Many do not understand Paul’s writings. It’s much easier to just go with what you are taught than to dig deeply into the word of God to get what Paul is actually saying.
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