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Do you have a Scripture that shows Paul, when speaking of works, is referring to anything we do to impress God? Im not saying there isn’t one, but I prefer to always have Scriptures to support what I believe.
You are correct. I do not believe we have to keep the Law of Moses. However, Jesus has made it clear that we are to do the will of the Father if we want to enter heaven (Matt. 7:21). He also said that if we love Him, we will keep His commandments (John 14:15), and in Luke 6:46, Jesus said why call me Lord and not do as I say? Keep in mind that Jesus is the author of salvation to all who obey Him (Hebrews 5:9).
Since Jesus commanded that we baptize, I have to trust Him. I have to believe what Peter said, that at the time of our baptism, our sin would be forgiven and we would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. All any of us can do is to try our best to live up to the commands of Christ and follow His example of obedience. Will we fall short? Indeed we will, but we know that if we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us. Because we sin, repentance is ongoing throughout our lives.
We’ll have to discuss OSAS another time. It’s off topic.
I find it mind-boggling that you'd argue that Paul is saying that we are no longer slaves to the law, but you think we should have a new law imposed on us.
How do you know when you've done enough of this new law in order to please Jesus?
Now, mind you...no one is saying baptism isn't important, or that we should not do the commands of Jesus. So don't assume that I'm saying that.
I find it mind-boggling that you'd argue that Paul is saying that we are no longer slaves to the law, but you think we should have a new law imposed on us.
How do you know when you've done enough of this new law in order to please Jesus?
Now, mind you...no one is saying baptism isn't important, or that we should not do the commands of Jesus. So don't assume that I'm saying that.
What exactly do you think the New Testament is?
Did Jesus or did He not say we must do the will of the Father? (Matthew 7:21) Why did Jesus command that we be baptized? Didn’t He say that everything He taught came from God? What about John, the baptizer? Where did he get the idea to baptize? Is baptism the will of God? (Luke 7:29). You say it is “important.” If baptism is the will of the Father, doesn’t that make it not simply important but necessary? Why would you even argue about it?
It would be much appreciated if you would address each one of my questions.
I’ve already answered your question about how we know we’ve done enough, but you mustn’t have seen it. My answer is that when we know that we have done our best to follow Jesus, then we trust in His promises to save us. Hebrews 5:8-9 tells us that Jesus learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
Last edited by MissKate12; 10-22-2021 at 08:04 AM..
Reason: Add sentence
Do you not believe that we now have the law of Christ?
You mean, do I believe Jesus gave us commandments that we should follow? YES! Absolutely! And baptism is one of them.
Now...do you believe we are bound to a new law, his commands, for salvation?
If so, then you are replacing one set of bondage with another. Paul describes us being set free from the Law in Romans. We are not enslaved to a new law.
Quote:
Did Jesus or did He not say we must do the will of the Father? (Matthew 7:21) Why did Jesus command that we be baptized? Didn’t He say that everything He taught came from God? What about John, the baptizer? Where did he get the idea to baptize? Is baptism the will of God? (Luke 7:29). You say it is “important.” If baptism is the will of the Father, doesn’t that make it not simply important but necessary? Why would you even argue about it?
It would be much appreciated if you would address each one of them.
I’ve already answered your question about how we know we’ve done enough, but you mustn’t have seen it. My answer is that when we know that we have done our best to follow Jesus, then we trust in His promises to save us. Hebrews 5:8-9 tells us that Jesus learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became this author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
You haven't answered the question of "how do we know that we have done our best?" That's a subjective answer.
You mean, do I believe Jesus gave us commandments that we should follow? YES! Absolutely! And baptism is one of them.
Now...do you believe we are bound to a new law, his commands, for salvation?
If so, then you are replacing one set of bondage with another. Paul describes us being set free from the Law in Romans. We are not enslaved to a new law.
You haven't answered the question of "how do we know that we have done our best?" That's a subjective answer.
Actually, the Bible is riddled with the precepts and doctrines of the men who interpreted Jesus using their belief in a wrathful and vengeful God. Jesus revealed that God is the exact OPPOSITE of wrathful and vengeful The God of Jesus is agape love and forgiveness as unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross under horrendous scourging and crucifixion.
I strongly believe in getting back to the God of Jesus. If we would all be willing to let go of the wrathful doctrines of men and simply follow the loving and forgiving God of Jesus, imagine the love and unity we would have amongst believers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Good Morning Mystic. Your statement, “The Bible is riddled with the precepts and doctrines of men, etc.” is very broad. Can you give me some examples? Maybe then we can differentiate between them and the word of God.
Hi MissKate. When I say riddled, I mean just that. There are so many because they used the wrong context of God as wrathful and vengeful instead of loving. The context of God under which our ancestors interpreted God's motives has been wrong from the beginning. They interpreted our very first lesson in discerning Good from Evil as our own children would interpret their first correction for their disobedience. They interpreted it as the anger and wrath of God for disobedience instead of correction for their first mistake.
You cannot understand God if you think He would curse them and their descendants for a single act of disobedience when they did not even know the difference between Good and Evil. That was the point of our first lesson. Every lesson since has been similarly misinterpreted using the context of a wrathful God instead of the context of a loving Father.
The point of lessons is to teach us to avoid the negative consequences of wrong behavior because God wants us to avoid them! He is NOT imposing them on us! There are negative consequences associated with our behaviors and what we are becoming, but they are NOT punishments imposed by God. That misunderstanding stems from the very beginning when we used the wrong context of God as wrathful instead of loving.
It is not a trivial task to reinterpret what our ancestors wrote using their context of God as wrathful and punishing instead of loving and correcting. I can attest to its difficulty, but if you truly believe Jesus is God in the flesh, then His sacrifice on the Cross reveals God's True Nature unambiguously. There is no wrath or vengeance in Him. He forgave us all even His torturers and murderers despite their brutal scourging and crucifixion of His human body because we knew not what we did.
Hi MissKate. When I say riddled, I mean just that. There are so many because they used the wrong context of God as wrathful and vengeful instead of loving. The context of God under which our ancestors interpreted God's motives has been wrong from the beginning. They interpreted our very first lesson in discerning Good from Evil as our own children would interpret their first correction for their disobedience. They interpreted it as the anger and wrath of God for disobedience instead of correction for their first mistake.
You cannot understand God if you think He would curse them and their descendants for a single act of disobedience when they did not even know the difference between Good and Evil. That was the point of our first lesson. Every lesson since has been similarly misinterpreted using the context of a wrathful God instead of the context of a loving Father.
The point of lessons is to teach us to avoid the negative consequences of wrong behavior because God wants us to avoid them! He is NOT imposing them on us! There are negative consequences associated with our behaviors and what we are becoming, but they are NOT punishments imposed by God. That misunderstanding stems from the very beginning when we used the wrong context of God as wrathful instead of loving.
It is not a trivial task to reinterpret what our ancestors wrote using their context of God as wrathful and punishing instead of loving and correcting. I can attest to its difficulty, but if you truly believe Jesus is God in the flesh, then His sacrifice on the Cross reveals God's True Nature unambiguously. There is no wrath or vengeance in Him. He forgave us all even His torturers and murderers despite their brutal scourging and crucifixion of His human body because we knew not what we did.
Can you provide specific Scriptures? I find debating without book, chapter and verse to be a waste of time. If you have an opinion, then support it with Gods word, otherwise, it is simply your opinion.
Jesus only showed himself getting baptized for the Father's glory. He wasn't doing it for man's approval, or for putting on a show or spectacle. That's the first point to get clear on.
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