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You mean, do I believe Jesus gave us commandments that we should follow? YES! Absolutely! And baptism is one of them.
Now...do you believe we are bound to a new law, his commands, for salvation?
If so, then you are replacing one set of bondage with another. Paul describes us being set free from the Law in Romans. We are not enslaved to a new law.
You haven't answered the question of "how do we know that we have done our best?" That's a subjective answer.
You did not answer my questions either. They are specific, so I would appreciate you answering each one, even with a simple yes or no. It will help me to understand your view much better. Here they are again.
Did Jesus or did He not say we must do the will of the Father? (Matthew 7:21) Why did Jesus command that we be baptized? Didn’t He say that everything He taught came from God? What about John, the baptizer? Where did he get the idea to baptize? Is baptism the will of God? (Luke 7:29). You say it is “important.” If baptism is the will of the Father, doesn’t that make it not simply important but necessary? Why would you even argue about it?
I absolutely believe Christians are to live according to the law of liberty. I did not use the words enslaved or bondage when speaking of the law of Christ, You did! The law of Christ is His perfect word of truth. All that Christ commanded is His law. So Yes, there is such a thing as a law for Christians. You can deny what I’m saying, but maybe you’ll believe James.
James 1:22-25 “ but be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.”
James 2:12 “So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of Liberty.”
How do we know we have done our best? By reading and studying the perfect law of Liberty, the law of Christ, which is God’s standard of living. It will show us our shortcomings. The Holy Spirit convicts us when we fall short. We repent and ask our Father in heaven to forgive us, and then move on. Every day, we strive to do our best, and when we don’t live up to His standards, the blood of Jesus cleanses us.
Last edited by MissKate12; 10-22-2021 at 01:30 PM..
Reason: Finish post
I don't get the obsession over baptism. Very likely it's coming from your church. But churches add all types of teachings and/or emphases that are not in the Bible.
If baptism was so important to Jesus, he would have discussed it more detail. But to most people, those details or emphasis are simply not there.
Shift your focus and awareness to what the church is promoting. You might just catch other matters that need correction as well.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 10-22-2021 at 01:29 PM..
I don't get the obsession over baptism. Very likely it's coming from your church. But churches add all types of teachings and/or emphases that are not in the Bible.
If baptism was so important to Jesus, he would have discussed it more detail. But to most people, those details or emphasis are simply not there.
Shift your focus and awareness to what the church is promoting. You might just catch other matters that need correction or eradication as well.
The problem is with people not understanding the timing of Scripture and trying to apply the things that were targeted to the principalities, powers, rulers in the high places that were going to be appointed and distributed globally over very specific times and regions according to the law, to be binding on individuals who are essentially free and not to be kept in bondage, and the ones who have been taken in bondage are to be set free as well after set times
Misskate is trying to go back to a 1st century church structure but the gospels and epistles were about things that were going to be fulfilled, nobody can go back those “days” we are now in the last “hour” of the “latter days” and we can now look back at the things that have been fulfilled as foretold in the specific regions and nations that were spoken of at the “3rd hour”
Act 2:1**And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2**And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3**And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4**And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5**And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6**Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7**And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8**And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9**Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10**Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11**Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12**And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13**Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Peter's Sermon at Pentecost
Act 2:14**But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15**For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16**But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17**And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18**And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Jesus only showed himself getting baptized for the Father's glory. He wasn't doing it for man's approval, or for putting on a show or spectacle. That's the first point to get clear on.
Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. His baptism was an example for us to follow. He never said that it was “important” that we be baptized, and He never suggested we “should” be baptized. He commanded it just as He commanded us to love one another. Think about it!
I don't get the obsession over baptism. Very likely it's coming from your church. But churches add all types of teachings and/or emphases that are not in the Bible.
If baptism was so important to Jesus, he would have discussed it more detail. But to most people, those details or emphasis are simply not there.
Shift your focus and awareness to what the church is promoting. You might just catch other matters that need correction as well.
Who instituted baptism? Was it man? Some church perhaps?
So you’re saying since Jesus didn’t discuss baptism in detail, it’s not necessary to obey His command to be baptized?
Funny but the only ones who ever questioned baptism and refused it were the Pharisees and lawyers. They rejected God’s will for themselves, and refused to be baptized. I’d say you would have fit right in with them.
All believers are baptized by Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:4-5, 1 Cor. 12:13), sent from heaven (1 Pet. 1:12).
Our part is spreading the gospel so that people are able to believe - and then the baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs (Eph 1:13-14).
Water not included. Both John and Luke differentiate John's baptism with water from Jesus' baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
At the time of our immersion in water, we are forgiven and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are immersed into the Holy Spirit at this time. We are added to the Lord’s church in that moment. There is only one baptism, not two separate ones as you have suggested.
Yes - I know there is one baptism. It's not water. Did you reference the Scriptures I mentioned? Most of them tell you how Jesus baptizes. John baptized in water BUT Jesus baptizes with the Spirit.
Should I have reference Ephesians 4:4 as well? One Lord, one faith, one baptism... these are related terms. We are baptized into the Father, Son, and Spirit (Matthew 28) by faith and the corresponding sending of the Spirit.
The problem is with people not understanding the timing of Scripture and trying to apply the things that were targeted to the principalities, powers, rulers in the high places that were going to be appointed and distributed globally over very specific times and regions according to the law, to be binding on individuals who are essentially free and not to be kept in bondage, and the ones who have been taken in bondage are to be set free as well after set times
Misskate is trying to go back to a 1st century church structure but the gospels and epistles were about things that were going to be fulfilled, nobody can go back those “days” we are now in the last “hour” of the “latter days” and we can now look back at the things that have been fulfilled as foretold in the specific regions and nations that were spoken of at the “3rd hour”
Act 2:1**And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2**And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3**And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4**And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5**And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6**Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7**And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8**And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9**Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10**Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11**Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12**And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13**Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Peter's Sermon at Pentecost
Act 2:14**But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15**For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16**But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17**And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18**And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Hello Meerkat. You asked me a question in a previous post about which denomination I was a member of. I took the time to answer you in the most sincere way I could. You never responded. Instead you’ve chosen to talk about me rather than to me. Tell me. Is that the way Jesus would have wanted you to respond? It is possible that I missed your response, but I can tell you that I purposely looked for it but couldn’t find it.
I believe you are mistaken about your “specific time” comment. I understand that we cannot go back to the day of Pentecost or other events, which occurred 2000 years ago. But can you cite the commands of Jesus or His penmen that cannot be applied to the way of salvation, work, worship and organizational structure of the church that does not apply today?
Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. His baptism was an example for us to follow. He never said that it was “important” that we be baptized, and He never suggested we “should” be baptized. He commanded it just as He commanded us to love one another. Think about it!
Well then just get baptized and be done with it! Just like asking for salvation, it's a once in a lifetime, momentary event. You do it, and then move on with your new life.
Do we need to push you in? LOL
Last edited by Thoreau424; 10-22-2021 at 02:21 PM..
I don't get the obsession over baptism. Very likely it's coming from your church. But churches add all types of teachings and/or emphases that are not in the Bible.
If baptism was so important to Jesus, he would have discussed it more detail. But to most people, those details or emphasis are simply not there.
Shift your focus and awareness to what the church is promoting. You might just catch other matters that need correction as well.
Jesus didn't need to discuss it because He does it.
What He did discuss is spreading the word about the kingdom of heaven so that people believe. That's our part.
At the time of our immersion in water, we are forgiven and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are immersed into the Holy Spirit at this time. We are added to the Lord’s church in that moment. There is only one baptism, not two separate ones as you have suggested.
Read Acts chapter 10. Cornelius and his household (Gentiles) received the Holy Spirit BEFORE they got water baptized.
Then read Acts 8:14-16. The Samaritans had been baptized in the name of Jesus but did not receive the Holy Spirit until a later time when Peter and John laid hands on them and prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit.
The only people who were told to be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit were the Jews (Acts 2:38)
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LOL
