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Old 03-27-2012, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Franklin, TN
6,662 posts, read 13,301,785 times
Reputation: 7613

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
In my opinion it's not about Rustbelt vs. Sunbelt, rather cities that have figured out how to attract a diversified infrastructure and a skilled, educated workforce. Cities lacking in higher wage jobs and an educated population aren't going to be seeing quality, sustained growth.

The Most and Least Educated Cities | Men's Health
I get what you are saying, but I don't believe that list is an absolute by any means when it comes to correlating it to healthy growth.

Here's the top 20 (with growth rates for the city attached)


1.
Madison, WI A+ 11.6%
2. Plano, TX A+ 17.0%
3. Raleigh, NC A 46.3%
4. Burlington, VT A 9.1%
5. Seattle, WA A- 8.0%
6. San Diego, CA A- 6.9%
7. Honolulu, HI A- 5.1%
8. Fargo, ND A- 16.5%
9. Portland, ME A- 3.0%
10. Lincoln, NE B+14.5%

11.
Boise, ID B+ 10.7%
12. Columbia, SC B+ 11.2%
13. Colorado Springs, CO B+ 15.4%
14. St. Paul, MN B+ -0.7%
15. Minneapolis, MN B+ -0.0%
16. Lexington, KY B+ 13.5%
17. Pittsburgh, PA B -8.6%
18. Virginia Beach, VA B 3.0%
19. San Jose, CA B 5.7%
20. San Francisco, CA B 3.7%



And here's the bottom 20:


81. Bakersfield, CA D- 42.3%
82. Houston, TX D- 7.5%
83. Bridgeport, CT D- 3.4%
84. Baltimore, MD D- -4.6%
85. Corpus Christi, TX D- 10.0%
86. Dallas, TX F 0.8%
87. Fort Worth, TX F 38.6%
88. Memphis, TN F -0.5%
89. Philadelphia, PA F 0.6%
90. Santa Ana, CA F -4.0%

91. Toledo, OH F -8.4%
92. Newark, NJ F 1.3%
93. Norfolk, VA F 3.6%
94. Laredo, TX F 33.7%
95. Fresno, CA F 15.7%
96. Detroit, MI F -25.0%
97. Stockton, CA F 19.7%
98. Las Vegas, NV F 22.0%
99. Cleveland, OH F -17.1%
100. Miami, FL F 10.2%


While there are more red numbers in the bottom 20 cities...there are also a lot of big gainers. Also, this appears to judge the city only, not the surrounding areas (note, Plano Texas is the #2 most educated, while it's parent Dallas is 86th).


I think some of these low education marks can be attributed to a high immigrant population in the city as well as cities where the majority of the wealthy and educated live outside of the city limits (or both).


Some of these are healthy growing cities and metros...I don't think the education of the *city* itself overall has a huge bearing on that.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:38 PM
 
11,289 posts, read 26,138,346 times
Reputation: 11355
The whole "rust belt" thing gets overblown in that many around the country think it's this huge REGION that is all depressed and falling to dispair. There are certainly rust belt areas around Cleveland, Detroit, Youngstown, Gary, E. St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc. Many of the suburban areas around those cities are perfectly fine though, and many are extremely nice areas. If you look at the population of the depressed areas (normally within the central city) of those metros, you're actually not even hitting more than around 20% to 25% of the people living in those areas. Expand out to look at Milwuakee, Madison, Chicago, Indianapolis, Grand Rapids, Columbus, Fort Wayne, etc. and there's very little rust belt going on. Chicago has large swaths of run down industrial areas on the south and southeast sides, but a huge % of the metro area is totally disconnected from that.

I was talking with my boyfriend's parents and grandparents this weekend who drove into Chicago from Westland, which is a suburb of Detroit about 10 miles west of downtown. They were saying how much they loved Chicago, and how it always makes them realize how nice the actual city of Chicago is in many areas, and how depressed most of the city of Detroit is. On that note though, we were talking how whenever they travel and say they're from Detroit, and as soon as the "D" gets off their lips, people stop listening and are immediately thinking horrid decay and population loss. His grandma laughed and said "you know, I started saying I'm from Farmington Hills or Ann Arbor instead of "Detroit" just to avoid the stupid comments and looks. His mom started laughing and said "Oh my god, haha, I started just saying Ann Arbor as well....the downtown is closer anyway".

Detroit the CITY has huge issues, and lost almost 250,000 people. The Detroit suburbs on the other hand gained almost 50,000 people over the past 10 years, and have held up very well. The suburbs where around 85% of the metro population lives, by the way.

The first time I went to Detroit to visit my BF we stayed with his family and drove all over the metro area and the suburbs, eating out, shopping, etc. I remember thinking - Wow, this is all really nice and pretty upclass for the most part. Certainly nothing like what you think of when you hear "Detroit". That's all left in the central city areas with a small % of the population.

It's just odd because it's the central city that's all fallen to pieces, and life has moved to the suburbs which never get any press.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
1,374 posts, read 3,248,858 times
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Cleveland's powerful momentum continues to demonstrate our latest renaissance ...

Downtown Cleveland's boom is real, experts say, thanks to millennials moving in | cleveland.com
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,509 posts, read 11,851,321 times
Reputation: 2501
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
I get what you are saying, but I don't believe that list is an absolute by any means when it comes to correlating it to healthy growth.

Here's the top 20 (with growth rates for the city attached)


1. Madison, WI A+ 11.6%
2. Plano, TX A+ 17.0%
3. Raleigh, NC A 46.3%
4. Burlington, VT A 9.1%
5. Seattle, WA A- 8.0%
6. San Diego, CA A- 6.9%
7. Honolulu, HI A- 5.1%
8. Fargo, ND A- 16.5%
9. Portland, ME A- 3.0%
10. Lincoln, NE B+14.5%

11. Boise, ID B+ 10.7%
12. Columbia, SC B+ 11.2%
13. Colorado Springs, CO B+ 15.4%
14. St. Paul, MN B+ -0.7%
15. Minneapolis, MN B+ -0.0%
16. Lexington, KY B+ 13.5%
17. Pittsburgh, PA B -8.6%
18. Virginia Beach, VA B 3.0%
19. San Jose, CA B 5.7%
20. San Francisco, CA B 3.7%



And here's the bottom 20:


81. Bakersfield, CA D- 42.3%
82. Houston, TX D- 7.5%
83. Bridgeport, CT D- 3.4%
84. Baltimore, MD D- -4.6%
85. Corpus Christi, TX D- 10.0%
86. Dallas, TX F 0.8%
87. Fort Worth, TX F 38.6%
88. Memphis, TN F -0.5%
89. Philadelphia, PA F 0.6%
90. Santa Ana, CA F -4.0%

91. Toledo, OH F -8.4%
92. Newark, NJ F 1.3%
93. Norfolk, VA F 3.6%
94. Laredo, TX F 33.7%
95. Fresno, CA F 15.7%
96. Detroit, MI F -25.0%
97. Stockton, CA F 19.7%
98. Las Vegas, NV F 22.0%
99. Cleveland, OH F -17.1%
100. Miami, FL F 10.2%


While there are more red numbers in the bottom 20 cities...there are also a lot of big gainers. Also, this appears to judge the city only, not the surrounding areas (note, Plano Texas is the #2 most educated, while it's parent Dallas is 86th).


I think some of these low education marks can be attributed to a high immigrant population in the city as well as cities where the majority of the wealthy and educated live outside of the city limits (or both).


Some of these are healthy growing cities and metros...I don't think the education of the *city* itself overall has a huge bearing on that.
I'll run a correlation coefficient to determine how correlated growth is with grade....

*Edit: the correlation coefficient is: 0.130651, or very weakly positively correlated....but closer to not correlated at all (or 0).

Last edited by west336; 03-30-2012 at 02:45 PM..
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,330 posts, read 3,800,319 times
Reputation: 4029
It might be more relevant to compare metro figures for educational attainment and growth. City growth figures are greatly impacted by the availability of developable land.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Florida
398 posts, read 749,385 times
Reputation: 269
You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming to move to a rust belt city, have fun with the condos.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,509 posts, read 11,851,321 times
Reputation: 2501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizz0rd View Post
You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming to move to a rust belt city, have fun with the condos.
Thank you so much for your contribution to the thread!
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Old 03-31-2012, 06:48 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
14,176 posts, read 22,673,045 times
Reputation: 17378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizz0rd View Post
You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming to move to a rust belt city, have fun with the condos.
As if you and your ilk are even worth the effort.
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,530 posts, read 5,011,473 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizz0rd View Post
You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming to move to a rust belt city, have fun with the condos.
Believe me, LizzOrd, when I tell you that by this time most of our old rusty buildings have just fallen down, and are no longer considered unsafe. Our main concern now is keeping all the scavengers at bay. (you know--the vultures, crows, and coyotes, etc.) They, along with all the beggars, can still make a mess of things in the morning, following the midnight escapades of all the marauding low lives. But please don't allow any of that to bother you; just schedule your excursions into the Rustbelt in broad daylight. (and also know that we stock an ample supply of rust-remover if you feel you really need it)

Last edited by motorman; 03-31-2012 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:39 AM
 
4,495 posts, read 5,060,668 times
Reputation: 4814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizz0rd View Post
You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming to move to a rust belt city, have fun with the condos.
Stay where you're at, please. We're better off w/o you.
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