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Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,700 posts, read 58,012,579 times
Reputation: 46172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
Thanks for posting the data.
Yes, ALWAYS know the content, source and objectives of your Data
ECMC Group, in partnership with VICE
Media, conducted five online national
surveys to understand high schoolers’ perceptions of postsecondary education,
the workforce and the impact of COVID-19
on the learning landscape.
5,317 people ages 14-18 were surveyed across five waves of research. (of ~25m in that age group)
Survey mind you... How many surveys do NOT pose leading questions (to HS age kids who are quite perceptive)
US Labor Statistics consider "Skilled trades / Labor," from the $11/ hr Factory worker in AL who has been given 4 hrs of instruction to install 'widgets' (there are LOTS of them), along with the $90+/ hr Radiology Technician in Seattle who has been in specialty trainng for years (there are plenty, tho fewer of these).
Yes, ALWAYS know the content, source and objectives of your Data
It's very easy to get-what-you-want-to-report, so... know your data
Yep, 0.021% of 2023 teens is who I'd ask about jobs and educational opportunities in the trades
Maybe 1923 teens. (they were already working and experienced in the trades. )
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 07-10-2023 at 03:27 PM..
Cant remember if I already wrote this or not and there are too many pages to go through to verify but our high school has no interest in the military or trades. They want those college acceptance numbers and nothing else. Trade schools and the military come to the college fairs, but the school puts them off in a corner away from the traffic. They both hold seperate marketing events for the kids but unless you hear about it from somewhere else, the school never advertises it. I even talked to one of the military recruiters and he said that our school in particular wants nothing to do with the military and therefore is forced to avoid it.
We also have one friend that went to college and then went into the trades afterward once he learned how much more he could make. His wife has her Masters degree and his salary far exceeds hers. He sia dhe was glad he went to college for the socialization, but the trades are the place to be right now.
We have spoken to many contractors who have come to the house and they all say that they cannot find quality workers and every single one of them has work booked out for months on end. They can charge what they want and essentially write their own paychecks. I am in my mid 40s have a Bachelors degree and make in the low 6 figures whereas some of the young guys in there 20's in the trades are making way more than I am, lol.
College is saturated with kids that are being told that is the only way to succeed only to come out with hefty student loans and a degree (in some cases) that is useless and or highly competitive and difficult to get a job in the market you are looking for. I think their is a balance between trades and college and it a rollercoaster from generation to generation. When I was a teen college was needed because there were plenty of tradesman and few jobs available. Today, we need more tradesman and less college in my opinion.
It seems like that kind of supports what some of us have been saying:
According to this survey, two years into the COVID-19 pandemic, half of high schoolers are no longer considering four-year college and less than half believe a four-year degree will make them successful.More than half are open to a path other than four-year college, and because of the pandemic, one-third say they're more comfortable with following a shorter pathway. Despite that, 85% feel pressure to pursue a four-year degree.
Seventy-five percent of high schoolers have a career in mind and 74% believe it is important to have their career plans determined when they graduate from high school. Also, 73% think a direct path to a career is essential in postsecondary education and 39% have taken classes on career exploration or have participated in a program to help them determine future career paths.
Teens are aware of worker shortages in in-demand fields, many of which do not require four-year degrees: teaching, healthcare, human services, hospitality, skilled trades
Only 39% feel that their high school has prepared them for postsecondary education
81% said learning the skills they need to be successful is an important factor in their decision about education after high school Nearly one-third would consider enrolling in career and technical education if there was a guarantee that they would develop stronger skills
There’s no guarantee of success in a trade or a college degree. You have those few who parley both into great careers and earn a lot doing so. Then you have the majority whose earnings are average followed by those who are on the low end of earners.
Nothing that schools (HS, Colleges) do will change this metric. Pushing trades or college isn’t going to turn every kid into a guaranteed winner. Too many variables at play including aptitude, work ethic, personal connections and luck.
There’s no guarantee of success in a trade or a college degree. You have those few who parley both into great careers and earn a lot doing so. Then you have the majority whose earnings are average followed by those who are on the low end of earners.
Nothing that schools (HS, Colleges) do will change this metric. Pushing trades or college isn’t going to turn every kid into a guaranteed winner. Too many variables at play including aptitude, work ethic, personal connections and luck.
You're not in as much debt if you bum out of trade school, though.
You're not in as much debt if you bum out of trade school, though.
Maybe, maybe not. Average student loan amount for those who did not finish college is right under 14k. I know someone whose kid spent 20k to try and get the certifications to be an auto mechanic. He now works at Chipotle.
There is no choice that doesn’t have a possible downside in time and/or money. That’s life.
Maybe, maybe not. Average student loan amount for those who did not finish college is right under 14k.
That's the average student loan amount, but what is the average balance owed with interest? There is no loan sharking racket like the federal college loan sharking racket.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,700 posts, read 58,012,579 times
Reputation: 46172
Commercial / for profit Trade Schools were part of the problem. Incentive to reap tuition, no deliverable to graduate qualified candidates.
Many independent trade schools went broke (rightfully so), and left a lot of students, parents, loans holding the bag.
The ease of getting loans did a disservice to the students, and benefited the sharks at many schools, public and private.
My experience with commercial trade schools is no better than a diploma mill. Typically the grads get a very menial and low paying position in a large employer (where most of their peers hired off the street 2+ yrs earlier, no schooling expense).
Trade schools do not pump out fully qualified Trades Workers. You must serve the time to earn the dime (and your credibility). The proof is in your daily performance. Formal education does not offer much in the line of practical skills experience.
...trade school more heavily promoted beware! Could be Shark bait.
Cant remember if I already wrote this or not and there are too many pages to go through to verify but our high school has no interest in the military or trades. They want those college acceptance numbers and nothing else. Trade schools and the military come to the college fairs, but the school puts them off in a corner away from the traffic. They both hold seperate marketing events for the kids but unless you hear about it from somewhere else, the school never advertises it. I even talked to one of the military recruiters and he said that our school in particular wants nothing to do with the military and therefore is forced to avoid it.
We also have one friend that went to college and then went into the trades afterward once he learned how much more he could make. His wife has her Masters degree and his salary far exceeds hers. He sia dhe was glad he went to college for the socialization, but the trades are the place to be right now.
We have spoken to many contractors who have come to the house and they all say that they cannot find quality workers and every single one of them has work booked out for months on end. They can charge what they want and essentially write their own paychecks. I am in my mid 40s have a Bachelors degree and make in the low 6 figures whereas some of the young guys in there 20's in the trades are making way more than I am, lol.
College is saturated with kids that are being told that is the only way to succeed only to come out with hefty student loans and a degree (in some cases) that is useless and or highly competitive and difficult to get a job in the market you are looking for. I think their is a balance between trades and college and it a rollercoaster from generation to generation. When I was a teen college was needed because there were plenty of tradesman and few jobs available. Today, we need more tradesman and less college in my opinion.
Because teenagers are known for doing what adults tell them to do.
I've had enough experience dealing with high school students to know that what adults tell them is a 50/50 proposition at best.
If there truly is that much money in the trades, people should be flocking to them. Of all ages, not just teens.
100k and over jobs tend to get lots of applicants.
I'm skeptical there is that much money in them on average.
If there is a lot of money in some roles, I'd bet my bottom dollar the role is harder to learn and harder to do than people are saying.
Because teenagers are known for doing what adults tell them to do.
I've had enough experience dealing with high school students to know that what adults tell them is a 50/50 proposition at best.
If there truly is that much money in the trades, people should be flocking to them. Of all ages, not just teens.
100k and over jobs tend to get lots of applicants.
I'm skeptical there is that much money in them on average.
If there is a lot of money in some roles, I'd bet my bottom dollar the role is harder to learn and harder to do than people are saying.
They cant find people that want to work over 40 hours a week, people that are reliable, people they can trust, etc.. The electrician that we recently hired said they even pay for these kids to go through school and will make close to $90K right out of the door.
I wasnt convinced until we needed electricians, plumbers, etc to do some work and we found that most of them are booked out for months and they are expensive. Everyone we have talked to has experienced the same thing. Regardless of pay, the job isnt going to get a lot of interest when the schools arent pushing this as an option. And people these days also tend to think they are too good to do certain jobs; Would you shovel cow manure in all kinds of extreme weather for $200K a year or would you rather an office job in a climate controlled environment for $100K a year? Same principle.
There are certainly some amazing jobs that are unlocked by going to college, but you need to go to college specifically for those jobs. Im not saying college is bad, I just think we are in a time where we need more trades. My son is going to be a senior this year and he can do what he wants after but the high school is really pushing college whereas I try to show him other options so he can make his own decision. Id prefer the military route myself.
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