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They cant find people that want to work over 40 hours a week, people that are reliable, people they can trust, etc.. The electrician that we recently hired said they even pay for these kids to go through school and will make close to $90K right out of the door.
I wasnt convinced until we needed electricians, plumbers, etc to do some work and we found that most of them are booked out for months and they are expensive. Everyone we have talked to has experienced the same thing. Regardless of pay, the job isnt going to get a lot of interest when the schools arent pushing this as an option. And people these days also tend to think they are too good to do certain jobs; Would you shovel cow manure in all kinds of extreme weather for $200K a year or would you rather an office job in a climate controlled environment for $100K a year? Same principle.
Being an electrician takes work. They're probably having trouble finding reliable people.
I'm not sure this is specific to the trades. Every sector seems to be in a labor mess. The workers out there are very unreliable, etc... All this is a huge problem post-pandemic for many fields. I don't understand how our labor force degraded so dramatically and quickly but it did. The trades are experiencing this somewhat more acutely.
I see it in my students. Work ethic, persistence, motivation; it all dropped off a cliff after 2020. I don't understand. From what I'm seeing, this labor quality problem won't get any better any time soon. The upcoming pools are lower quality than pre 2020.
We see it in the new teachers too. They're just not as good and they quit much more easily and frequently than pre pandemic. If we can even fill positions. So this problem ain't going away. E.g., it used to be unheard of for a teacher to break contract and quit in the middle of a school year. Now, 15-20% of new teachers in our district just called in and quit one day. They knew the consequences - had their license suspended, got blacklisted from the district. They didn't care.
At my level, instructors will now quit at a rate I've never seen before.
It's why I'm skeptical...I think a big part of the problem is that there are just too few people willing and able to take on the commitment of being an electrician or other type of skilled trade. They can be good money but not easy money.
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There are certainly some amazing jobs that are unlocked by going to college, but you need to go to college specifically for those jobs. Im not saying college is bad, I just think we are in a time where we need more trades. My son is going to be a senior this year and he can do what he wants after but the high school is really pushing college whereas I try to show him other options so he can make his own decision. Id prefer the military route myself.
There are costs and benefits to whatever path. I was in the Army 6 years. It covered some of my college and I got a VA loan, the purchase I made with it is the foundation of what I have now. But I spent almost 3 of those years serving in quagmire wars I stopped believing in. That wasn't fun. My time in the Army felt like a prison sentence and I generally hated it. So I paid a cost. But I do credit the Army for building the foundation of my financial life, for what that's worth.
Last edited by redguard57; 07-12-2023 at 10:58 AM..
They cant find people that want to work over 40 hours a week, people that are reliable, people they can trust, etc.. The electrician that we recently hired said they even pay for these kids to go through school and will make close to $90K right out of the door.
I wasnt convinced until we needed electricians, plumbers, etc to do some work and we found that most of them are booked out for months and they are expensive. Everyone we have talked to has experienced the same thing. Regardless of pay, the job isnt going to get a lot of interest when the schools arent pushing this as an option. And people these days also tend to think they are too good to do certain jobs; Would you shovel cow manure in all kinds of extreme weather for $200K a year or would you rather an office job in a climate controlled environment for $100K a year? Same principle.
There are certainly some amazing jobs that are unlocked by going to college, but you need to go to college specifically for those jobs. Im not saying college is bad, I just think we are in a time where we need more trades. My son is going to be a senior this year and he can do what he wants after but the high school is really pushing college whereas I try to show him other options so he can make his own decision. Id prefer the military route myself.
Just like most everything the need for more people in the trades is local. Last year we did a whole house reno. I had no problem finding plumbers, electricians, painters, hardwood installers, carpenters, tilers, HVAC pros etc.
And I cannot think of one that was over 40 with most being younger. Sounds like people have been entering the trades in my location. Just like college grads, people getting training in the trades need to be willing to move to where the jobs are. From your post, sounds like your part of NH would be one such place.
Just like most everything the need for more people in the trades is local. Last year we did a whole house reno. I had no problem finding plumbers, electricians, painters, hardwood installers, carpenters, tilers, HVAC pros etc.
And I cannot think of one that was over 40 with most being younger. Sounds like people have been entering the trades in my location. Just like college grads, people getting training in the trades need to be willing to move to where the jobs are. From your post, sounds like your part of NH would be one such place.
Its crazy, our friend is in HVAC and is looking for summer interns. He went to local high schools trying to recruit (not ours) and still cant fill the positions. A a few of the tradesman ive talked to say they have so much work that they could easily work 7 days a week for the next 6 months with what they already have lined up. They are so busy that a lot of them are throwing out astronomical quotes because they dont need the work but if someone is willing to bite at those prices, they will be sure to squeeze them in.
Commercial / for profit Trade Schools were part of the problem. Incentive to reap tuition, no deliverable to graduate qualified candidates.
Many independent trade schools went broke (rightfully so), and left a lot of students, parents, loans holding the bag.
The ease of getting loans did a disservice to the students, and benefited the sharks at many schools, public and private.
My experience with commercial trade schools is no better than a diploma mill. Typically the grads get a very menial and low paying position in a large employer (where most of their peers hired off the street 2+ yrs earlier, no schooling expense).
Trade schools do not pump out fully qualified Trades Workers. You must serve the time to earn the dime (and your credibility). The proof is in your daily performance. Formal education does not offer much in the line of practical skills experience.
...trade school more heavily promoted beware! Could be Shark bait.
There’s no guarantee of success in a trade or a college degree. You have those few who parley both into great careers and earn a lot doing so. Then you have the majority whose earnings are average followed by those who are on the low end of earners.
Nothing that schools (HS, Colleges) do will change this metric. Pushing trades or college isn’t going to turn every kid into a guaranteed winner. Too many variables at play including aptitude, work ethic, personal connections and luck.
Yes, success in trades or after college requires hard work no question about it. Too many people think that once you graduate with a college degree that you have it made. Nothing could be further from the truth. A university diploma opens doors but that’s all. It’s still up to that graduate to bust their butt to become a success. Trades are much the same just different path.
I think that's part of the problem in this discussion is for many people "trade school" seems to mean places like DeVry. When I was growing up "trade school" meant the county Vo-Tec, which high school kids could attend for free. They came out ready to start an entry level trades job. Auto mechanics, most of the building trades, welding, machinist, etc.
This is a big part of what I mean by having tracks. Instead of college prep English, they got business English --how to write and communicate in the business world rather than academia. Instead of calculus, they got business math -- the math they would use in a trade or job. And they took classes in their desired trade path.
A lot of that led them to attend the state tech colleges. One- or two-year programs of more advanced work. But somehow that Vo-Tech became a bad word in education and the most high schools got rid of their Vo-Tech programs and state tech colleges became community colleges trying to be the first two years of State-U rather than provide a good value add for the students headed toward the workforce.
I think that's part of the problem in this discussion is for many people "trade school" seems to mean places like DeVry. When I was growing up "trade school" meant the county Vo-Tec, which high school kids could attend for free. They came out ready to start an entry level trades job. Auto mechanics, most of the building trades, welding, machinist, etc.
This is a big part of what I mean by having tracks. Instead of college prep English, they got business English --how to write and communicate in the business world rather than academia. Instead of calculus, they got business math -- the math they would use in a trade or job. And they took classes in their desired trade path.
A lot of that led them to attend the state tech colleges. One- or two-year programs of more advanced work. But somehow that Vo-Tech became a bad word in education and the most high schools got rid of their Vo-Tech programs and state tech colleges became community colleges trying to be the first two years of State-U rather than provide a good value add for the students headed toward the workforce.
Rather than using up a lot of bandwidth, just to "quote and agree" to these posts, I'll just condense it, and say, "mustangman66", and "redguard57", your posts #641 and #642, respectively, are both right on the money.
It would seem to me that a solution to the issue stated at the beginning of the thread could be something like the following:
During the first semester of a student's junior year (or should it be second semester of the sophomore year?), each student should take a course called something like "Planning Your Future". The first 9 weeks could be spent as an overview of various career/work paths and how to look into them. The second 9 weeks could be spent on helping students explore more deeply their stated chosen paths.
It would seem to me that a solution to the issue stated at the beginning of the thread could be something like the following:
During the first semester of a student's junior year (or should it be second semester of the sophomore year?), each student should take a course called something like "Planning Your Future". The first 9 weeks could be spent as an overview of various career/work paths and how to look into them. The second 9 weeks could be spent on helping students explore more deeply their stated chosen paths.
And then we could hope the school offers curriculums along those paths.
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