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It is definitely regional. Where are you? Is that contractual? We don't have collective bargaining, but we don't have to do anything like that and I don't think we should have to either. A few years ago there was a small push to have staff take turns staying after school to help kids with homework. The counselors were trying to organize an after school homework club. It never materialized. Staff wouldn't do it. At the time my son was in 2nd grade and I had to pick him up from the after school care provider by 4:30. My main point of opposition to it was: Why should I stay after school to help someone else's child with their homework when I have my own child waiting at home for me to help him with his?
NJ. As for contractual its one of those "past practices" things in my current district but it was actual in the contract at my previous district.
A few years back, we researched the public school system where we live, in the hopes my husband could start a second career before the current one totally destroyed his health via 80-hour work weeks and virtually no vacation (he accrues about 8 weeks a year after 22 years with the same corporation, but he's not allowed to take more than one 2-week vacation a year). He's one of the few people with a super-IQ who can explain very complex matters in an understandable way, and he knows all there is to know about the hard sciences. He's a guest-teacher at the local University and got excellent reviews from both students and Professors.
So we thought, we'll move to the state we want to retire (less urbanized, more nature-oriented). Same situation there; you have to know someone who has hiring power to get a job. They like to hire education majors, because they are allowed to teach ANY subject (not necessarily well). And they don't know how to handle people who didn't enter the ranks of Teachers in their early 20s.
I'd love to hear from someone who actually made this transition recently, from a technical career to Teaching, and how/where you did it. For the good of the educational system, we need more teachers with "real world" experience.
OK. Me in NJ.
I have been teaching for 5 years and before that I was a research scientist. My best friend just did the same thing two years ago. I both of my teaching jobs based solely on my own credentials as I did not know a single person at either school before hand. In my state this is ILLEGAL and hiring is done by multiple people with at least 3 people being interviewed by various people before they are selecting the position. I cannot fathom how knowing someone would get you a job.
Oh an in my district almost none of the teachers have teaching degrees, we all have masters or beyond in our fields.
But you could say "no". The kids are there because you and the school allow them to be. That's fine, but it is your choice. Saying "no" would give you time to get your work done. Due to a foreign language program, we have many students who come from outside the school boundaries and parents have to provide transportation too. They are not allowed to come early or stay late. It just isn't allowed. Doors don't open until 8:10 and the first bell rings 10 minutes later. Those students who come in that span wait in the cafeteria. It is understood that staff is not available before that time. We are not a baby-sitting service for parents. Students leave when the bell rings. No hanging around.
What do you do when children need extra help then?
What do you do when children need extra help then?
You give extra help during school hours by adapting assignments, having flexible groups, utilizing instructional assistants, etc. School policy is that homework should be able to be completed independently. So there shouldn't be a need to help with homewok. Also, as we get closer to the end of year testing, we have some after school groups that meet for an hour twice a week for test taking skills, but teachers get paid per hour for that.
I think the extra help issue differs between elementary and secondary students. At an elementary level, you have more time to adapt your schedule (Johnny's struggling with math but is awesome at reading? Great, let's give him some more math help while the other kids practice their comprehension skills). You only have your secondary students for 45 minutes a day, and generally you can't keep them from going to their next class.
I'm surprised how many schools don't let the kids come early/stay late. The schools I went to for elementary started at 8:30, and there were playground monitors at 7:30. Similarly, school ended at 2:30 but the monitors stayed until 3:30. From 3:30-6:30 there was a super cheap after school program offered on campus, where kids could get homework help or continue to play outside.
The middle school I have been observing at requires every teacher to stay an hour late 1 day per week. There are late buses for the kids, and they can get tutoring or make up exams as needed.
My high school was super flexible. Teachers came early or stayed late as necessary, but they were always willing to stay when asked. It was never formal, but when I requested help on something, the teacher would always make time.
The schools I attended were open campuses though. Southern California weather doesn't require all the classrooms to be in a single building--there would be "pods" of 3-4 classrooms that all opened to the outside, and you'd walk across the lawn to get to the other building for your next class. It would have been impossible to restrict access to campus!
Be careful about throwing stones from your glass house I am not the one who did not understand the OP's original statement. And we are all very impressed that you were once an engineer, so you do not have to repeat it anymore.. As far as your calculations on average hours worked I am not sure where you come up with this 40hr week nonsense but short of White Collar workers a 40hr week is a rarity. Most people I know who are still lucky enough to be employed, are working close to 50hrs a week 50 weeks a year, with a whole 4 paid holidays (of course if one of those holidays fall on a normal day off you loose it) and no such thing as sick days. That is the real world. If you are in sales or salaried management 60hrs a week is more likely. If you are a blue collar worker, your risk of being killed on the job is 100 times what it is for teachers. Many jobs require constant exposure to chemicals that require the work site to be posted with signs warning of exposure to asbestos, carcinogens, and chemicals that cause birth defects. Most blue collar jobs subject workers to constant hazards which can and do result in life changing injuries. I have personally been injured several times and some of my injuries will never heal. Most of my co workers and I live with constant pain due to work related injuries. I can promise you if you spent 1 day working in my world you would appreciate just how good you really have it. So if you do not like your pay, by all means go do something else, but quit whining, and trying to convince the rest of us how bad you have it..
Hi Jim,
Sense you think its so great; The pay, benefits, time off. You can always apply to be a teacher. Instead of working 10 Hr shifts all payed come on over to our side and work for 10+ however only payed for 7.5. Come on Over its great! However please post after a year of being a teacher and tell us you feel the same.
They wouldn't allow students to come after school for help? What kind of teacher does that? I hope not one that my kids ever have.
No, they do not offer tutoring on demand, nor do I think they should. Tutoring is set up by the teachers either in the morning or afternoon but only 1-2 days per week. If students need more tutoring than that then they seek help from the guidance office or from a private tutor.
If tutoring before and after school every day is needed to pass the course then either 1). You are not effectively teaching the material so that it is understood or 2). The material is beyond the capability of the students and they need to be in a lower level course. 3rd possiblity is that the student is lazy and not paying attention but those students generally don't show up for tutoring and you shouldn't be putting in more effort than they are anyway.
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Saying no doesn't facilitate relationship building.
I wish the school would do what your school does. Then it's not me kicking the kids out. Unfortunately, they leave it up to the individual teacher and it seems I always have someone coming in early to take a test or staying after to redo a lab or get tutoring. I have to be at school an hour early today because a student who was supposed to stay after tomorrow and retake a test couldn't stay. I have gone to a sign up sheet for make up labs and am restricting that to two days a week.
There is no reason at all that you should/could not schedule specific hours to retake tests or offer tutoring. Make your own rules and don't be a doormat. Stop waiting for the school policy to be your backbone and use your own.
Relationship building--that is just an excuse and a poor substitute for quality teaching. Both my kids have excellent 'relationships' with their teachers despite having limited tutoring hours available. I had excellent relationships with my teachers and NEVER went for tutoring, I'm not sure that it was even offered. Your job is to teach, not build relationships. Focus more on the former in the classroom and more on the latter at home on weekends.
Whatever if you want to go to collage you can. There are grants and loans. It is never to late. I earned my BS at the age of 30, and I'm working on my masters now. I also teach full time and have a child who is on the autism spectrum. Stop bellyaching, and change your life if you don't like it. I work very hard for my money. For you to say teachers don't work hard for their money is BS!!! I go to work every day knowing I could be injured by one of my students, I teach SPED. Yet I do it because I love my job, and my students. I work 10 months a year, but I'm only contracted for 10 months a year. I'm tired of people talking about things they have no knowledge of.
Let me start by thanking you for your work with special needs children. You are right that I could go to college now if I wanted to, but I did not have that option in my younger life. I am not complaining in any way, I have been very successful, but the road I traveled to get where I am you could not imagine. The world was a much different place when I was growing up. There was little in the way of workers rights. What you fail to realize is that everyone has first hand knowledge of what teachers do because we all spent at least 12 years watching them do it. Teachers on the other hand have little or no practical knowledge of what most of us do.
Good point. If teachers were paid commensurate with performance (how much the student actually learns), they would be working nearly for free.
And you're basing that accusation on... ?
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Those who think they're doing such a bangup job only have to take a look at student test performance and results.
Please post the results you refer to.
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If teachers were fired for job performance like everybody else, maybe they would finally EARN what they get.
Oh, wait... It isn't THEIR fault kids don't learn. It's the PARENTS. Teachers complain that they have the kids more hours every day than parents do, yet they blame poor student performance in school on the parents.
If you'll take the time to look at national normed average scores at the link below, I think you'll find that test score results have held steady or increased over the past 12-20 years.
No, they do not offer tutoring on demand, nor do I think they should. Tutoring is set up by the teachers either in the morning or afternoon but only 1-2 days per week. If students need more tutoring than that then they seek help from the guidance office or from a private tutor.
If tutoring before and after school every day is needed to pass the course then either 1). You are not effectively teaching the material so that it is understood or 2). The material is beyond the capability of the students and they need to be in a lower level course. 3rd possiblity is that the student is lazy and not paying attention but those students generally don't show up for tutoring and you shouldn't be putting in more effort than they are anyway.
There is no reason at all that you should/could not schedule specific hours to retake tests or offer tutoring. Make your own rules and don't be a doormat. Stop waiting for the school policy to be your backbone and use your own.
Relationship building--that is just an excuse and a poor substitute for quality teaching. Both my kids have excellent 'relationships' with their teachers despite having limited tutoring hours available. I had excellent relationships with my teachers and NEVER went for tutoring, I'm not sure that it was even offered. Your job is to teach, not build relationships. Focus more on the former in the classroom and more on the latter at home on weekends.
I disagree on relationship building. Some of the kids who sit in my room like a rock will open up and work for me one on one. For them, there is nothing I could do in the classroom to get them to participate. Often my most disruptive studenst just need some attention. Building relationships IS part of my job. Sometimes, it's the only way to reach a student.
I am shifting to scheduled hours. I didn't expect the kind of response I've gotten to tutoring.
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However please post after a year of being a teacher and tell us you feel the same.
