Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-13-2014, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Ukraine (Kiev)
435 posts, read 420,629 times
Reputation: 82

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
Do not show poor knowledge of history.
Land of the Turks? lol. BC it was the land of the Greeks, after more than 1,000 years in Byzantium 9-10 century it was Tmutarakan principality - part of Kievan Rus, by the way is a place where Prince Vladimir baptized Rus.(converted to Christianity in 988, hence it went across the Russian land.)
Oh, poor Russian... you think that all earth in the world belongs to you: )
1441 — formation of the independent Crimean Khanate.
1774 — the Crimea is declared by the independent state headed by own khan
1783 — the Empress Catherine II signed the Manifesto on accession to the Russian Empire of the Crimea and Taman Peninsula
1853 — 1856 — the Crimean war (East war).
1917 — 1920 — Civil war. The "white" and "red" governments, including the Soviet Socialist Republic of Taurida, the Crimean Soviet Socialist Republic several times replace with territories of the Crimea each other, etc.
1921 — the Autonomous Crimean Soviet Socialist Republic as a part of RSFSR is formed.
1941 — 1944 — occupation of the Crimea by Germany and Romania.
1944 — deportation of the Crimean Tatars, Armenians, Bulgarians and Greeks
1954 — the Crimea is transferred from structure of RSFSR to USSR structure
1987 — the beginning of mass return of the krymskotatarsky people to the Crimea from deportation places.



The Russian Empire won the Crimea which belonged to Turkey before war between Russia and Turkey.
After transfer of the Crimea to Ukraine in 1954 Turkey filed documents to the International Court of Justice, but it refused.

So Turkey is the Crimean khanate: )
And Russians got there only after the Russian-Turkish war: )

On stories not Kiselyov writes textbooks to you incidentally? )
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-13-2014, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Ukraine (Kiev)
435 posts, read 420,629 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Russians should just take over those South- Eastern parts of Ukraine in addition to Crimea and everyone should get over it.
The "Far Right" and nationalists in general who are widely represented now in Ukrainian government made it all quite possible.

"In one of his first public appearances over the weekend, Mr. Yarosh, who has the buzz cut and tightly coiled mannerisms of a military man, arrived at a hotel conference room in a scrum of bodyguards with pistols, all dressed in black. Newly appointed to the position of deputy director of Ukraine’s security council, he is clearly riding the popularity of the street fighters to stake a claim to a role in the political future of Ukraine.
Mr. Yarosh has hinted at a role for his group in balancing the influence of a longtime player in Ukrainian politics, Yulia V. Tymoshenko, the former prime minister who emerged from prison after the fall of the old government with members of her political party, Fatherland, already holding the positions of acting president and prime minister."
Before the protests, the nationalist party Svoboda had occupied the nationalist niche to the right of Ms. Tymoshenko. But Svoboda and Fatherland are now allied. Mr. Yarosh’s ambitions, observers of Ukrainian politics say, fall well short of winning a national election but do include supplanting Svoboda as the leading right-wing party."

"The Svoboda party, meanwhile, has moderated, and did not openly endorse the tactic of throwing firebombs when street fighting began in January. Svoboda was founded in 1991 under the name the Socialist-Nationalist Party of Ukraine, with a symbol that resembled a swastika. Its leader, Oleg Tyagnibok, met Secretary of State John Kerry on Tuesday and in December appeared onstage with Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona. Svoboda holds 37 seats in Parliament."


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/wo...d-it.html?_r=0


"Freedom" won't be gone, don't worry.
Now at it there are a lot of important posts in Ukraine. For example from Svoboda party our new general prosecutor Makhnitsky...

And Yarosh the president won't be, don't worry: )
On all to polls and ratings it isn't among leaders of presidential race: )
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2014, 12:32 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,742,791 times
Reputation: 9728
I also don't think Russians should take over any part of the Ukraine against the will of the people living there.
Crimea should never have become Ukrainian to begin with, though. And I agree with the Russians that in view of Nato's aggressive expansion to the east (often disguised in the shadow of the EU), Crimea is of particular importance to them. The original reason for this latest mess in certainly to be found in the West, not in Russia. I think this whole mess was deliberately started by Washington, maybe even as a revenge for the asylum for Snowden, who knows. The timeline would fit...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2014, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Ukraine (Kiev)
435 posts, read 420,629 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Ukraine View Post

So Turkey is the Crimean khanate: )
Sorry.
So Crimea is the Crimean khanate: )
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2014, 12:37 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
Since when has any nation-state annexed foreign territory in recent history and everyone else in the region or rest of the world was expected to "just get over it"?
Uh, I dunno, annexation of Sudetenland circa.. I don't remember 1938?

Everyone got over it, because as history shows, the major powers don't like to get into conflict over "less significant" nations. ( Same with Georgia-Abkhazia, Kosovo and what's not.

Quote:
That never happens, no matter how much of a vodka-induced patriotic haze you're in...
I am a very pragmatic person, so no "patriotic haze" here and oh - while we are at that - red vine, no vodka please.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2014, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Ukraine (Kiev)
435 posts, read 420,629 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
The last time I checked, Ukraine was a sovereign country, nationalists or not. Let Ukraine deal with their nationalists.

In addition, nationalists are probably well represented in most of the countries around the world. Do you want to take over all of 'em?

Stop treating Ukraine as if it's still were a part of the Soviet Empire.
Putin will conduct ethnographic researches about structure of the population of other countries soon.
And if somewhere Russians there are at least 5%, it will start them rescuing at once in all European countries: )
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2014, 12:45 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
The last time I checked, Ukraine was a sovereign country, nationalists or not. Let Ukraine deal with their nationalists.
Oh I would let Ukraine deal with their nationalists, but see - Ukraine is not all that "sovereign" as you are trying to imagine. It's economically-dependent on other nations, and these other nations become players in Ukrainian internal affairs. That's why "dealing with Ukrainian nationalists" is not quite "internal affair."

Quote:
In addition, nationalists are probably well represented in most of the countries around the world. Do you want to take over all of 'em?
I have no interest, since other countries keep tabs on their nationalists, but in case of Ukraine, they are encouraged and used for advancement of certain interests.

Quote:
Stop treating Ukraine as if it's still were a part of the Soviet Empire.
I think about Ukraine rather as part of the Russian Empire - inseparable part of it since... oh, 1654?
This should explain a thing or two, why when separated, Ukraine became a failed state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2014, 12:52 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,742,791 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Ukraine View Post
Putin will conduct ethnographic researches about structure of the population of other countries soon.
And if somewhere Russians there are at least 5%, it will start them rescuing at once in all European countries: )
That paranoia is not helpful. Actually, Russia has been rather peaceful and patient for decades, unlike the US for instance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2014, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,804,723 times
Reputation: 11103
If you think Crimea is yours, why not give Karelia back to us, as it's legally ours? Allow a referendum and let's see what happens.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2014, 01:03 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,742,791 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
If you think Crimea is yours, why not give Karelia back to us, as it's legally ours? Allow a referendum and let's see what happens.
Yep, they should give it back.

Maybe we need a global territory cleanup movement There are quite a number territorial conflicts lingering all over the world, e.g. in Asia, the Middle East, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top