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Old 04-25-2014, 09:37 AM
 
1,028 posts, read 1,121,611 times
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Because Ukraine is still a slave to the gangsters of Russia.
You know, Poland and Ukraine are both independent 23 years already. How Russia could interfere them to become successful?
Quote:
It needs to end and Ukraine should be allowed to join the EU
Ukraine will never join EU. Because 'an associated member' is polite term instead of "a colony". No one in EU offered Ukraine to become candidate for joining EU.
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if you dont like it move back to Russia, take you stuff, leave your home and start a new life in this great Russian kingdom
You are saying this about 16 millions people, 1/3 of all ukrainian people, actually, and these people and their ancestry have lived there hundreds of years. And these territories of Eastern Ukraine was always Russian, but Stalin and Hrushev gave them to Ukraine 50 years ago. And these people pay a bloody cost for the mistakes of the soviet leaders.

Transcarpathian Ukraine is going to declare its independence.
Закарпатская область Украины хочет объявить независимость - Первый по срочным новостям — LIFE | NEWS
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:41 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,239,989 times
Reputation: 10141
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Originally Posted by EUPL View Post
Someone needs to stop Putin, I am ashamed that Nato and the States dont have enough courage to stand up to this KGB thug.
Part of the reason is that Russia really does have some legitimate concerns about ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.

But also it takes a while before you can get a large alliance of so many different nations with diverse interests to agree on something. For instance, it too the sacrifice of Austria and Czechoslovakia before the West stood up to Hitler. And even then it was only Britain, France, Canada and Australia. Most of the other future Allies stayed neutral until Hitler attacked them.
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Part of the reason is that Russia really does have some legitimate concerns about ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.

But also it takes a while before you can get a large alliance of so many different nations with diverse interests to agree on something. For instance, it too the sacrifice of Austria and Czechoslovakia before the West stood up to Hitler. And even then it was only Britain, France, Canada and Australia. Most of the other future Allies stayed neutral until Hitler attacked them.
Do you really believe Putin wants to conquer Europe? Revanchism was a visit card of Hitler. No one in Russia want revanche, it has no sense.
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:20 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,239,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atai J. View Post
Do you really believe Putin wants to conquer Europe? Revanchism was a visit card of Hitler. No one in Russia want revanche, it has no sense.
No, I do not believe Putin wants to conquer Europe. I was using just Hitler as an example of how it took time for the Allies to finally come together to oppose him.

On the other hand revanchism, is actually a good way to describe Russian policy to reunite Russian areas with Russia. If I was Russian I would probably be happy about Crimea returning to Russia.

I really do not know what Putin's goals are. Probably even Putin does not know how far the situation will go. The situation is changing very rapidly and of course that means there is a danger that things might get out of control of the political leaders.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I really do not know what Putin's goals are.
Putin's goal is push back NATO as far of russian borders as possible. US would act this way too if the russian forces have military bases in Canada and Mexico.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,491 posts, read 6,342,407 times
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Originally Posted by Atai J. View Post
Putin's goal is push back NATO as far of russian borders as possible. US would act this way too if the russian forces have military bases in Canada and Mexico.
I think that the support for NATO membership in Western Ukraine wasn't too big at the time Yanukovych had to flee the country. But now after the Russian invasion...
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:12 AM
 
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Can you explain how Russia threatens Europe or US? But we can see NATO is closer and closer to Russian borders. Russia was cornered and forced to act. That is not an agression, it's self protection.

Well I don't see NATO or Ukrainian troops clamoring and biting to get into Russia. But there are 30k+ er 'green men' ready to move from the Russian end. Just waiting for the command. And it's said the Russian fleet is moving around in the Black Sea. Where to? Not sure but I figure a line west, a drop off on the coastline and zingo they're in Moldova real quick. Another future 'problem' for Ukraine to think about. Russia is just making plans, see?

And btw perhaps Mr. Yatsenyuk is right Mr. Putin sure is not shying away from a possible war. He has done absolutely nothing toward de-escalation of tensions.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:35 AM
 
1,028 posts, read 1,121,611 times
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Originally Posted by travric View Post
Can you explain how Russia threatens Europe or US? But we can see NATO is closer and closer to Russian borders. Russia was cornered and forced to act. That is not an agression, it's self protection.

Well I don't see NATO or Ukrainian troops clamoring and biting to get into Russia. But there are 30k+ er 'green men' ready to move from the Russian end. Just waiting for the command. And it's said the Russian fleet is moving around in the Black Sea. Where to? Not sure but I figure a line west, a drop off on the coastline and zingo they're in Moldova real quick. Another future 'problem' for Ukraine to think about. Russia is just making plans, see?

And btw perhaps Mr. Yatsenyuk is right Mr. Putin sure is not shying away from a possible war. He has done absolutely nothing toward de-escalation of tensions.
No one wants to disarm - not rebels in Eastern Ukraine, not Right Sector. That's the problem. How rebels will disarm if it make them an easy victim for the Right Sector? And that's why Putin make it understandable that Russia is going to protect people of Donbass. Putin don't want to use military forces, all these maneuvers have a purpose to let Kiev know that Russia won't abandon russian people in Eastern Ukraine.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:38 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,239,989 times
Reputation: 10141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atai J. View Post
Putin's goal is push back NATO as far of russian borders as possible. US would act this way too if the russian forces have military bases in Canada and Mexico.
But that raises the question - just how far is as far as possible? Just how far does Putin want to push back NATO (or the EU for that matter). Do you see why that makes people nervous? Especially in countries like Poland, Romania or the Baltic States.

I know you are just one person but do you know where this will end? Like I said, I do not even think Putin knows exactly how this is all going to work out. There is a danger that things might get out of control.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:52 AM
 
1,028 posts, read 1,121,611 times
Reputation: 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
But that raises the question - just how far is as far as possible? Just how far does Putin want to push back NATO (or the EU for that matter). Do you see why that makes people nervous? Especially in countries like Poland, Romania or the Baltic States.

I know you are just one person but do you know where this will end? Like I said, I do not even think Putin knows exactly how this is all going to work out. There is a danger that things might get out of control.
That is why everybody - EU, US, Russia and Ukraine - must negotiate, but Ukraine now is a puppet of US and EU and don't want to negotiate.
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